Why disable "Unbelievable lack of professionalism - results in injury" thread ?
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fisherdvm
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If an anonymous person make an accusation against me that might harm my reputation and livelihood on a forum, I would first direct legal action against the forum.
It is much harder to defend against anonymous accusations on internet forums than in the court of law.
If the person that you name claimed that such incidence never happened, who am I going to believe - him, or yourself - a totally anonymous individual.
In life, you can not please everyone. Eventually, one in every 100 clients will hold a grudge against you, and will do what ever necessary to hurt your reputation.
How can we tell if you are not a liar? I think this issue is best left to the court, and the lawyers. As hearing loss is a significant disability, you have alot to gain by taking legal action against the business. That is the direction you should take.
If this is a minor issue, ie. cost of a dive, missing equipments, etc.. I can see where they might let it be discussed on this forum. But this is a significant injury, and should be left to the courts.
It is much harder to defend against anonymous accusations on internet forums than in the court of law.
If the person that you name claimed that such incidence never happened, who am I going to believe - him, or yourself - a totally anonymous individual.
In life, you can not please everyone. Eventually, one in every 100 clients will hold a grudge against you, and will do what ever necessary to hurt your reputation.
How can we tell if you are not a liar? I think this issue is best left to the court, and the lawyers. As hearing loss is a significant disability, you have alot to gain by taking legal action against the business. That is the direction you should take.
If this is a minor issue, ie. cost of a dive, missing equipments, etc.. I can see where they might let it be discussed on this forum. But this is a significant injury, and should be left to the courts.
lifeisfullofgooddives
Contributor
well thats the way the legal system works....not that its right, but thats what you have to deal with. I think it is wise to not discuss specifics and go after these guys with lawyers.
However If you wanted to start a general discusion about this type of accident, talking about different problems you might run into, what you actually should do in the situation, how to avoid the situation all together....then I think there is nothing wrong with that.
either way don't be upset with scubaboard, be up-set with that dive opperator.
And good luck!
However If you wanted to start a general discusion about this type of accident, talking about different problems you might run into, what you actually should do in the situation, how to avoid the situation all together....then I think there is nothing wrong with that.
either way don't be upset with scubaboard, be up-set with that dive opperator.
And good luck!
fisherdvm
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If you want us to discuss this on this forum, please edit and delete references to the name of the instructor, and the name of the dive operator. Simply state that it is a dive operator on the island of ________. Then you can continue to discuss it here.
SkullDeformity
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I would categorize a lawsuit against SB because of what some random user posted frivolous. It wouldn't hold out in court. If we were REALLY worried about lawsuits we would all stop bashing PADI and leisurepro. Seriously.
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What's the sense in warning people that you had a bad experience with xxxxx at yyyy operation?fisherdvm:
I don't know why the original thread was pulled and that's Pete's business.
Unfortunately in the time that I owned a dive shop here in the midwest I met MANY people who had their first experience with diving in a resort discover course and suffered some degree of ear injury. So many that I'd consider it the norm. some saught medical attention after getting home and some didn't. After talking to many of them, I'd guess that the reason that there aren't more law suits is 1st, because many of these first time divers don't realize what actually happened and 2nd, because some of this stuff takes place in locations where it's probably difficult or impossible for somone who lives on the other side of the world to take legal action.
I'd also say that I've seen students who didn't really yet know what it feels like to equalize "fake it" in the pool and suffer a squeeze. You know...those students who think they have water stuck in their ear after being out of the water for three days? Of course it isn't water. It's fluid in the middle ear. We modified the way we taught and took quit a few measures to try to prevent it from additional material and emphisis in lectures to the way we went about getting students down in the deep end of the pool the first time and the way we taught descents.
The idea of taking someone on an OW dive after one pool session absolutely terrifies me. Diving is buoyancy control, buoyancy control and more buoyancy control. Without buoyancy control you go up and down with little control and timely equalization gets to be a problem. so...we take people diving before they have learned buoyancy control and we certify them before they learn buoyancy control...and we're going to be surprised when ears get hurt? I mean...come on...a discover scuba diving program consists of confined water dive 1 (no buoyancy control taught there) and OW dive 1. Like I said, lets go diving without learning buoyancy control...to prove what exactly?
You know what they say? Do what you always did and you'll get what you always got.
Unfortunately in the time that I owned a dive shop here in the midwest I met MANY people who had their first experience with diving in a resort discover course and suffered some degree of ear injury. So many that I'd consider it the norm. some saught medical attention after getting home and some didn't. After talking to many of them, I'd guess that the reason that there aren't more law suits is 1st, because many of these first time divers don't realize what actually happened and 2nd, because some of this stuff takes place in locations where it's probably difficult or impossible for somone who lives on the other side of the world to take legal action.
I'd also say that I've seen students who didn't really yet know what it feels like to equalize "fake it" in the pool and suffer a squeeze. You know...those students who think they have water stuck in their ear after being out of the water for three days? Of course it isn't water. It's fluid in the middle ear. We modified the way we taught and took quit a few measures to try to prevent it from additional material and emphisis in lectures to the way we went about getting students down in the deep end of the pool the first time and the way we taught descents.
The idea of taking someone on an OW dive after one pool session absolutely terrifies me. Diving is buoyancy control, buoyancy control and more buoyancy control. Without buoyancy control you go up and down with little control and timely equalization gets to be a problem. so...we take people diving before they have learned buoyancy control and we certify them before they learn buoyancy control...and we're going to be surprised when ears get hurt? I mean...come on...a discover scuba diving program consists of confined water dive 1 (no buoyancy control taught there) and OW dive 1. Like I said, lets go diving without learning buoyancy control...to prove what exactly?
You know what they say? Do what you always did and you'll get what you always got.
Tassie_Rohan
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Good post mate - see you posted the same thread over on rebreatherworld as well: good to see you don't have an agenda.
MikeFerrara:
Evidently I have been confused. Below is copied from my PADI Digital Instructor Manual, Open Water Diver, Confined Water dive #1:
7. Swim underwater with scuba equipment while maintaining control of both
direction and depth, properly equalizing the ears and mask to accommodate
depth changes.
On the DSD Flip Chart, right after the Alternate Breathing pictures is a picture of a diver swimming horizontally with fins only. As I understood it, I have been teaching all my students neutral bouyancy in CW #1 / DSD pool, as well as ear equalization and trim.
I have also required additional dive/expense of a couple mountain climbers who could only take completely full breaths; no breath control, no bouyancy control, no certification. After I hurt them in the pocketbook they were finally motivated enough to listen and learn.
I just recently had a NAUI Universal Referal student from NJ who had a problem equalizing his ears. He was all signed off by his pool/book instructor, but after consecutive single dive days resulting in bloody snot, I refused to do any more dives until after he saw a doctor. I do not believe he knew what ear equalization is. He told me the next day he would return to NJ and consider the quarry.
The people I see who suffer ear trauma are the ones who want to do it so bad they lie on the medical release form &/or they lie about getting their ears equalized. After flying hours with a bunch of sick people to a place with millions of flowers, nobody will admit to any congestion. I warn everyone, everyday, that congestion can cause the expanding air to be trapped in the ear during ascent and that we don't want anyone to perforate the eardrum.
If people, parents, kids, lie to me about ear equalization they run the risk of hurting their ears. If they can't control their bouyancy swimming around at 6-7 feet deep in our pool (not easy for everybody), they don't get to go on the ocean dive. My average certified refreshers who have never done a shore dive are way worse divers than my average DSD's. I guess I should look out for the dive police, evidently I am not allowed to require diving skills in order to dive.
With regard to the ear problem of this and the other thread, as stated it's a pretty sorry affair, but it's just a bad apple, not the whole bushel.
fisherdvm
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Thalassamania:
I did post the name of an operation in the Keys that I had problem with. It was a problem with both the owner and the support staff. I posted their email to me as well.
Other scubaboard members investigated as well. I think we agreed at the end that it was error on one person's part, but the owner's response was inappropriate.
No one was harmed (I book another accomodation), and another SB member took advantage of the great deal that I missed out.
My guess is that the legal action threat might have been against SB, and not the OP against the individual.
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