Why does every new diver want to be an instructor?

[Edward3c]

Here's a question for you.

…

Before I digress too much, I was curious about your observations of the results (and time lines) for training via BSAC and PADI in your area.

R..

Hi Diver0001,

First off people normally join BAC to SCUBA not snorkel, so that’s what we teach from the outset (yes there is some snorkelling, but its integral to the SCUBA instruction not separate). We have a separate training schedule for snorkellers, see here.

I don’t like comparing club based training against commercially provided, it’s like comparing oranges and apples.

BSAC’s Ocean Diver (OD) course involves 7 theory lessons and an exam, plus 5 pool and 5 open water lessons. Once qualified they can use a Nitrox mix on air tables/computer, dive with another OD within their experience level, and have a maximum depth certification of 20m.

Its possible for one pool lesson to be completed each club meeting (usually weekly) and 2 dives done on a club outing. Then again OD can be taught commercially by a BSAC Centre and completed in a few days.
I can’t comment on the time-frames for PADI operators locally, but like any business if they took too long punters would go elsewhere.

As an aside, we get about 50% of our new members already qualified via a commercial operator – saves us the time and investment to get people to go diving with.

Kind regards

 

[xyrandomyx]

Hi Diver0001,

First off people normally join BAC to SCUBA not snorkel, so that’s what we teach from the outset (yes there is some snorkelling, but its integral to the SCUBA instruction not separate). We have a separate training schedule for snorkellers, see here.

I don’t like comparing club based training against commercially provided, it’s like comparing oranges and apples.

BSAC’s Ocean Diver (OD) course involves 7 theory lessons and an exam, plus 5 pool and 5 open water lessons. Once qualified they can use a Nitrox mix on air tables/computer, dive with another OD within their experience level, and have a maximum depth certification of 20m.

Its possible for one pool lesson to be completed each club meeting (usually weekly) and 2 dives done on a club outing. Then again OD can be taught commercially by a BSAC Centre and completed in a few days.
I can’t comment on the time-frames for PADI operators locally, but like any business if they took too long punters would go elsewhere.

As an aside, we get about 50% of our new members already qualified via a commercial operator – saves us the time and investment to get people to go diving with.

Kind regards

I'm curious about how this works too: are the theory lessons also taught at weekly club meetings?

Diver0001, is NOB very much decentralised? If so, I'm wondering if that's the cause for the really long duration -- perhaps you get all the frustrated students and the others who get shorter timeframes from more organised branches never come to you.

 

[Diver0001]

Thanks for the reaction.

Your OD course sounds like it's in line with what you'd expect.

How much influence have the new European norms had in forming the content and tempo of your courses? I've noticed a huge change in the NOB approach (insofar that I can evaluate it as an outsider) since the rules were changed but since BSAC (probably) doesn't have European ambitions do those norms have any affect on you?

R..

 

[Edward3c]

I'm curious about how this works too: are the theory lessons also taught at weekly club meetings?

Diver0001, is NOB very much decentralised? If so, I'm wondering if that's the cause for the really long duration -- perhaps you get all the frustrated students and the others who get shorter timeframes from more organised branches never come to you.

It varies Branch (club) the Branch. We recently had a new member wanting to do Ocean Diver from scratch.

The theory was done in three sessions at my house (2 lots of 3 and 1 to finish off), split between two instructors.

Kind regards

 

[Diver0001]

Diver0001, is NOB very much decentralised? If so, I'm wondering if that's the cause for the really long duration -- perhaps you get all the frustrated students and the others who get shorter timeframes from more organised branches never come to you.

As far as I know each club is an independent entity under an umbrella organisation. And yes, I'm sure I'm only seeing the dissatisfied ones.

R..

 

[Edward3c]

Thanks for the reaction.

Your OD course sounds like it's in line with what you'd expect.

How much influence have the new European norms had in forming the content and tempo of your courses? I've noticed a huge change in the NOB approach (insofar that I can evaluate it as an outsider) since the rules were changed but since BSAC (probably) doesn't have European ambitions do those norms have any affect on you?

R..

We're not part of CMAS - we left in the early 1990s.

Our training is accredited by the EUF - which means our members can dive in Greece and Egypt.

 

[xyrandomyx]

It varies Branch (club) the Branch. We recently had a new member wanting to do Ocean Diver from scratch.

The theory was done in three sessions at my house (2 lots of 3 and 1 to finish off), split between two instructors.

Kind regards

OK. That sounds very reasonable, then (unlike the NOB timeframes Diver0001 spoke of). And it sounds pretty similar to the sort of timeframes you'd get from PADI shops over here if you were doing the course part-time.

---------- Post added January 24th, 2013 at 03:12 PM ----------

As far as I know each club is an independent entity under an umbrella organisation. And yes, I'm sure I'm only seeing the dissatisfied ones.

R..

Thanks for the answer. I can understand their frustration with course durations like that.

 

[Mustard Dave]

I’m afraid you paint too rosy a picture.

Your quite right that diver training in a BSAC Branch (club) is free – providing the BSAC and branch fees are paid. Anything from £60 to £250 in total a year.

So to say becoming an instructor with BSAC is free is misleading. Instructor training isn’t done in branch but on nationally run events which have a fee:

• Instructor Foundation Course = £144 for 2 days (includes the Instructor Manual).
• Open Water Instructor Course = £66 for 1 day.
• Practical Exam = £61 1 day.
• Theory Exam = £39 1 day.

Successful completion of the above events qualifies an individual as a BSAC Open Water Instructor total £310.

Kind regards

Sorry to go off topic for a minute:

Thanks for correcting me. One of the lads from my club has just joined a BSAC club. My club is attached to a PADI school. It was once a BSAC club and not long after forming, one of the founder members realised there was a demand for crash courses. He began teaching people who wanted to dive abroad on a commercial basis and the business was doing well. Over time, PADI's influence spread and more people wanted their courses and they started offering both*.

Eventually the demand for BSAC courses became quite low, plus the school were under pressure from PADI not to advertise courses that clashed with theirs. There are quite a few of the old boys still with the club, but they are all BSAC Advanced Divers so they have done all the training they want. I am paying £40 ayear for membership which gives me access to the pool for two hours on a Monday evening and allows me to go on trips.

I cannot be arsed with any more PADI training - I've done all the courses up to RD plus the deep and nitrox specialities. I do not intend on handing over any hard earned cash to do any pointless badge collecting courses (such as Boat Diver, Underwater Photographer, DSMB etc), I do not want to hand over ridiculous amounts of cash to be an unpaid 'professional' and they do not offer any technical courses. All the trips are organised by the members themselves and the club does not have a compressor or shop with discounts for members. Basically, if you own all your kit and don't use the pool, you get nothing.

One of the lads has been getting a bit fed up with one person in particular. The business is owned by a bloke who hasn't dived for about ten years. He owns the building and all the kit for students but takes no active role in courses or club activities. He has one full time instructor working for him but he comes and goes as he pleases (full time is possibly the wrong word - I think he's self employed and charges a fee to the owner per certification, but he's the only one at the school to make a living exclusively from teaching diving). The owner is also a bit of a technophobe and has no idea how to send emails etc. I put a post on the club Facebook group in November about an overseas trip I am running this year. I asked the owner to get an email out to all the members who don't use Facebook but he said he couldn't do it himself. It took over two weeks for the full time instructor to get the email to go out and it still isn't on the website.

Despite this, I get on well with a group of divers from the club and go on most of their trips. We meet in the pub once a week and really we do not need a club. The lad that has joined a BSAC club is still keeping a foot in both camps. He is a PADI Divemaster but he holds a BSAC Advanced Nitrox and Extended Range cert he did with a BSAC Technical Centre. H has crossed over to Dive Leader and is now working towards his boat handling qualifications. The BSAC club he has joined has its own club-house with a large garage containing compressor, gas blending kit, minibus and two RHIBs. Club fees are around £250 a year, which is a bit more than my current club fees, but with use of a RHIB for fuel cost only, it's easy to see who offers best value for money.

With regards to the instructor course, thanks for clearing that up. Still, it works out a damn sight cheaper to get to that level than PADI, and at least BSAC don't have the nerve to label unpaid instructors as 'professionals'.

 

[Adam Grose]

Well.... for what it's worth, I definitely do NOT want to go professional (maybe because I know what I put my instructor through trying to teach me).

Adam

 

[Edward3c]

Sorry to go off topic for a minute:

Not a problem to me.

... and at least BSAC don't have the nerve to label unpaid instructors as 'professionals'.

Here I do disagree. I don't teach commercially, but I do consider myself a professional instructor.

Kind regards