Why new divers looking into instructor and tech diving

[Them]

This is certainly true, for example, in medical residency programs -- with the SIGNIFICANT caveat that the relative beginners doing the teaching are closely supervised by people who are NOT beginners, which is not the case with scuba instruction.

Now look at aviation.

The recommended - almost required - path for a would-be airline pilot goes like this:

PPL (OW equiv, very loosely)
Instrument (AOW)
Commercial (required for any paying gig - requires 250 logged hours and age >= 18)
Instructor

At this point the pilot has 251 hours logged and starts doing 1:1 training of 0 hour students - people who just walk in off the street sometimes. They do that for 1250 logged hours or so (regional airlines typically won't hire anyone with less than 1500 hours) .

The average flight instructor is in his early 20s and has been the sole instructor for at least 20 pilots by the time he or she starts applying for regional airlines. Obviously those 20 must be able to pass tests administered independently but a 20 year old/260 logged hours CFI can OK a student pilot to fly solo on their own responsibility.

 

[OldNSalty]

I thought the recommend/required path for commercial pilot was. Go to college, get a commission in <insert military service here>. Learn to fly heavy, rack up a lot of hours (1,000s) get out (possibly retire). Step into high paying job flying civilians around.

 

[mainedvr]

If I were to become an Instructor someday, or a DM its because of the enjoyment I get from teaching. I teach course directly related to my trade at the local community college. I enjoy it (yes even the trial's and tribulations) and even though it is a challenge even on a good day I get no more joy than seeing it click in someone or a student stating that they had a hard time but now understand it even if its enough to move on. My students come from many different back grounds and ages range from 18-65 and that is what is so awsome about teaching and I believe that would carry over for me, I enjoy the challenges and I enjoy different people. Now would I do it today, no would I put a time or dive number no, but I know I would not take someone's safety in my hands if I was not ready and felt that my skills were not sharp enough to take someone's trust and safety in my hands. For me it would not be about the money and volumn of students, for me it would be about pass it on and love of teaching.

Just my feelings.

 

[Them]

I thought the recommend/required path for commercial pilot was. Go to college, get a commission in <insert military service here>. Learn to fly heavy, rack up a lot of hours (1,000s) get out (possibly retire). Step into high paying job flying civilians around.

From what I understand, the airlines have figured out that great mil pilots make mediocre airline pilots. Too many deeply ingrained habits (the product of much expensive training) that are inappropriate in the civilian context.

The mil rout is still recommended for helicopters (where getting to CFI can cost $75,000 - $100,000 in helicopter rental costs alone) as far as I know.

 

[eelnoraa]

Ok let me ask, who are you to judge his skills? You say he would not pass his fundies, would you? I do not understand why someone has to be at a certain level of dives before they can learn skills. I am in a constant state of training in diving, and I will have my NAUI Intro to Tech, Cavern 1, Nitrox, DPV, and possibly cave 1 done by this coming Feb. I am currently doing my AOW, and have logged 20 cold water dives since May. So am I not ready? How will you improve without challenging yourself? It is like playing computer games on easy, sure fun, but you can't handle any escalation.

I am not judging. I merely stated my observation. If you read my words, I didn't say he wouldn't pass fundie if he take the class. In fact, with our exellent instructors here, he can learn enough in the 5 12-hours day, and receive a pass. However, if he was to get evaluated today, he will not pass. My opinion comes from seeing much better diver (IMO) didn't pass.

Keep in mind, fundie isnt a tech class. It is class prep for tech training. To GUE, which I also believe, a tech pass should the minimum skill set one should have to enter a tech training.

As for that matter, I did pass fundie, but not tech pass, just rec level.

---------- Post Merged at 01:33 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 01:28 PM ----------

It seems like the OP is saying that after training he wouldn't be a good tech diver?

Absolutely NOT.

What I meant was I think he may not be ready for tech training at this moment. So instead of going dirrectly to tech training, maybe going into fundie or intro to tech first is a better idea

 

[NAM001]

Dr Dog

Well i would say at <25 dives you ARE NOT READY. Maybve for nitrox or AOW but not the rest of your training list. Sure you will have all sorts of paper behind you, but the paper will be wet ink and no experiance. To put it into perspective.... you are a 16 yo with your first drivers license and are going for your commercial ticket having never changng a tire bown a window shield wiper, or ever driving on an interstate. Take your time ,, Certs reflect a level of training AND experience to others. In all honesty if you would ask me to do a tech dive with you i would decline. A hooker on a corner says VD pit. A diver with your perspective resume says CARD COLLECTOR. It may not be accurate but a fact of life, none the less. You dont know what you dont know. You dont know what being narced is, in your self or in others and you are ready to go to 200 ft???? Perhaps Master diver would be a more worthy short term goal as i notice rescue is not on your list. I can tell you that recently i blew a wing early in a dive with doubles, and it took my buddy and me both to get me to the surface. It was no big deal outside the bouyancy issue because in the past i have been the rescuer for a less than calm victom and knew what that level of task loading involved. Although not measureable,, Every dive is a lesson learned , and the amount of lessons learned needed for follow on trainig can not be done in class. Would you trust a pilot with <25 flights including 1 take off and landing.

Ok let me ask, who are you to judge his skills? You say he would not pass his fundies, would you? I do not understand why someone has to be at a certain level of dives before they can learn skills. I am in a constant state of training in diving, and I will have my NAUI Intro to Tech, Cavern 1, Nitrox, DPV, and possibly cave 1 done by this coming Feb. I am currently doing my AOW, and have logged 20 cold water dives since May. So am I not ready? How will you improve without challenging yourself? It is like playing computer games on easy, sure fun, but you can't handle any escalation.

 

[Dr Dog]

Not if you plan on actually learning anything.

Care to back that up?

---------- Post Merged at 05:51 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:46 PM ----------

Dr Dog

Well i would say at <25 dives you ARE NOT READY. Maybve for nitrox or AOW but not the rest of your training list. Sure you will have all sorts of paper behind you, but the paper will be wet ink and no experiance. To put it into perspective.... you are a 16 yo with your first drivers license and are going for your commercial ticket having never changng a tire bown a window shield wiper, or ever driving on an interstate. Take your time ,, Certs reflect a level of training AND experience to others. In all honesty if you would ask me to do a tech dive with you i would decline. A hooker on a corner says VD pit. A diver with your perspective resume says CARD COLLECTOR. It may not be accurate but a fact of life, none the less. You dont know what you dont know. You dont know what being narced is, in your self or in others and you are ready to go to 200 ft???? Perhaps Master diver would be a more worthy short term goal as i notice rescue is not on your list. I can tell you that recently i blew a wing early in a dive with doubles, and it took my buddy and me both to get me to the surface. It was no big deal outside the bouyancy issue because in the past i have been the rescuer for a less than calm victom and knew what that level of task loading involved. Although not measureable,, Every dive is a lesson learned , and the amount of lessons learned needed for follow on trainig can not be done in class. Would you trust a pilot with <25 flights including 1 take off and landing.

I guess it is a good thing you are not my instructor then

I dont buy the whole I need 500 dives before I can go into caves. I am doing the right path, found the best instructors and dive with them all the time.

I do not have anyone elses life in my hands, just my own.

But if you want to come judge my skills yourself, I will be in Tobermory at the end of September doing my final AOW dives

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

Care to back that up?

If you follow the thread I won't have to.

You may have a card but you will not have any sort of competency in the water with your newly acquired "skills". The only way you could accomplish your goal is to find an instructor that only wants your cash, does the bare minimum in training standards and issues you a card.

I've seen posts like yours over and over.

If you think 8 dives in a NAUI 1 cave course makes you a cave diver I've got some news for ya... you aren't.

 

[Dr Dog]

whatever

keep judging and preaching it will get you everywhere in life

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

whatever

keep judging and preaching it will get you everywhere in life

Uhuh, good luck with your zero to hero attitude.

Care to back that up?

---------- Post Merged at 05:51 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:46 PM ----------




I guess it is a good thing you are not my instructor then

I dont buy the whole I need 500 dives before I can go into caves. I am doing the right path, found the best instructors and dive with them all the time.

I do not have anyone elses life in my hands, just my own.

But if you want to come judge my skills yourself, I will be in Tobermory at the end of September doing my final AOW dives

Prime indicator that you have no idea what you are talking about.