Why would a shop change from PADI to SSI affiliation?

[hroark2112]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here.

Before you go, you both need to do a skills refresher. If it were me, I'd do the full open water course from beginning to end.

It's been 3 years since your last dive. Be smart and be safe. Yes, it will cost you money but it's well worth it. Take the time and do it.

 

[bfw]

I wouldn't be as quick as others here to say there won't be a problem. PADI is pretty unique in having a certification level "below" Open Water, and has policies and procedures in place to handle taking out someone with a SCUBA Diver card as opposed to an Open Water card (depth limits, environmental limits, minimum supervisor rating or how many such divers one supervisor with a given rating may supervise.) In theory, the staff of an SSI shop may have no idea what those standards are and whether their procedures meet them. They also may be under an SSI boilerplate insurance policy that says no one goes out without an OW certification or its equivalent.

It seems the responsible answer would be, contact the shop, explain the situation, and, before you book non-refundable travel, get it in writing that you're good to dive with them.

 

[EFX]

There are three additional reasons I can think of as to why a PADI shop changes to SSI:

1. SSI instructors are required to work out of the shop. This means shop owners and/or training directors are guaranteed a cut of the training money. As mentioned earlier PADI instructors are independent and are under no such obligation to teach out of the shop.

2. If the area has other PADI shops, going SSI may give them an advantage as being unique.

3. SSI instruction focuses on four key facets of dive education as displayed on their diamond emblem: training, equipment, skills, and experience. Prospective divers that view experience as important will gravitate toward SSI. For example, SSI requires a minimum number of dives (24) to earn AOW -- PADI does not.

 

[stuartv]

Both my local shops have been PADI, SDI, and TDI shops since before I started diving 1 year ago. Both shops added SSI this year.

One of those shops was a PADI 5 star dive center in good standing, with membership paid up through the end of this year. When the PADI rep found out that they were adding SSI, the shop's PADI 5 star rating was immediately dropped to a 4 star. Then the shop was mysteriously deleted out of PADI's online database (i.e. where a prospective student goes to PADI's website and searches for a nearby shop). The shop complained and they were added back. I think they mysteriously disappeared another one or two times. Now, they are so pissed at PADI that they are not going to renew with PADI, no matter what, and will be only SSI, SDI, and TDI.

That same shop also told me some of the reasons why they liked SSI enough to get crossover training for all their instructors and make SSI their main offering (prior to all the pissiness with PADI).

SSI pushes prospective students to the local shops. In contrast, PADI pulls students to their website. Example: With PADI, anyone can go online, pay PADI, and do a full e-Learning course (say for OW Scuba Diver) before they ever talk to anyone at a shop. With SSI, anyone can go online and do the first 3 chapters of the OW course for free. But, to continue and finish the course, they have to go to an SSI shop and pay the shop for the course, at which time the shop unlocks the rest of the online course for the student. With PADI, the student pays PADI before they start anything. With SSI, the student never pays SSI anything. Anything they pay for, they are paying the shop they are working with. This has had a side effect over the last 6 months that the shop's students' rate of buying full gear has gone from single digits to something like 70 or 80%. That's not just good for the shop. They feel like students who buy a full set of their own gear are much more likely to continue diving, so the shop feels like it's actually good for the students and the sport also.

PADI rigorously defines what the student is taught and how they are taught. The aforementioned local shop disagrees with some of the details of the way PADI requires things to be done. With SSI, they have standards too, but they leave a little bit more up to the judgment of the instructor as far as HOW the things are taught.

I could be totally wrong about this, but I *think* I remember the shop told me another difference is that if there is a class in the water with an instructor and an assistant, and there is a student who is having an especially difficult time with a skill, under PADI the approach would be to have the assistant take the problem student aside to work with while the instructor continues with the rest of the class. Under SSI, the instructor would work with the problem student and the assistant would continue to work with the rest of the class. If I am recalling this correctly, that was another reason the local shop liked SSI better as having the full instructor work with a problem student seems to make more sense than having a non-full instructor do it.

 

[tursiops]

Both my local shops have been PADI, SDI, and TDI shops since before I started diving 1 year ago. Both shops added SSI this year.

One of those shops was a PADI 5 star dive center in good standing, with membership paid up through the end of this year. When the PADI rep found out that they were adding SSI, the shop's PADI 5 star rating was immediately dropped to a 4 star. Then the shop was mysteriously deleted out of PADI's online database (i.e. where a prospective student goes to PADI's website and searches for a nearby shop). The shop complained and they were added back. I think they mysteriously disappeared another one or two times. Now, they are so pissed at PADI that they are not going to renew with PADI, no matter what, and will be only SSI, SDI, and TDI.

That same shop also told me some of the reasons why they liked SSI enough to get crossover training for all their instructors and make SSI their main offering (prior to all the pissiness with PADI).

SSI pushes prospective students to the local shops. In contrast, PADI pulls students to their website. Example: With PADI, anyone can go online, pay PADI, and do a full e-Learning course (say for OW Scuba Diver) before they ever talk to anyone at a shop. With SSI, anyone can go online and do the first 3 chapters of the OW course for free. But, to continue and finish the course, they have to go to an SSI shop and pay the shop for the course, at which time the shop unlocks the rest of the online course for the student. With PADI, the student pays PADI before they start anything. With SSI, the student never pays SSI anything. Anything they pay for, they are paying the shop they are working with. This has had a side effect over the last 6 months that the shop's students' rate of buying full gear has gone from single digits to something like 70 or 80%. That's not just good for the shop. They feel like students who buy a full set of their own gear are much more likely to continue diving, so the shop feels like it's actually good for the students and the sport also.

PADI rigorously defines what the student is taught and how they are taught. The aforementioned local shop disagrees with some of the details of the way PADI requires things to be done. With SSI, they have standards too, but they leave a little bit more up to the judgment of the instructor as far as HOW the things are taught.

I could be totally wrong about this, but I *think* I remember the shop told me another difference is that if there is a class in the water with an instructor and an assistant, and there is a student who is having an especially difficult time with a skill, under PADI the approach would be to have the assistant take the problem student aside to work with while the instructor continues with the rest of the class. Under SSI, the instructor would work with the problem student and the assistant would continue to work with the rest of the class. If I am recalling this correctly, that was another reason the local shop liked SSI better as having the full instructor work with a problem student seems to make more sense than having a non-full instructor do it.

Stuart, for heaven's sake, please check the standards of both organizations before you cause endless confusion and ill will before publishing hearsay like this.

 

[stuartv]

Stuart, for heaven's sake, please check the standards of both organizations before you cause endless confusion and ill will before publishing hearsay like this.

The OP asked why a shop would change. I posted why the shop TOLD me they changed.

If the shop told me anything regarding standards that is wrong, I hope that someone who knows more than I do will post the correct info.

 

[boulderjohn]

The OP asked why a shop would change. I posted why the shop TOLD me they changed.

If the shop told me anything regarding standards that is wrong, I hope that someone who knows more than I do will post the correct info.

One problem is that correcting all the misinformation in your post would require a post at least as long as the one you wrote, because nearly everything you wrote is untrue. That would force readers who want to know the truth to wade through another long post so they can make a judgment.

The second problem is that because of what I wrote in that last paragraph, most people who have read what you wrote will not go on and read the corrections. Even if they do, the psychological tendency is always to believe the accusation rather then the correction.

The third problem is that PADI standards do not permit its processionals to make disparaging comments about another agency. That is one of the reasons you don't usually see PADI members entering into these discussions except to refute the usual untrue charges. We can tell you what is untrue abut PADI, but talking about SSI in a way that might be perceived as disparaging could put us potentially on the edge of a standards violation. I don't know if SSI has a similar standard.

Please think things through before posting what you heard somebody say somewhere as if it were gospel truth when you don't have a way to verify it first. I get enough ridiculously false information presented as truth when I go to my FaceBook feed.

---------- Post added December 17th, 2015 at 03:53 PM ----------

Just as one example of the accuracy of the post, let's take the story of how the PADI 5-star center was demoted to a 4-star center. Here is an explanation of all the PADI center designations. If you read it, you will see that there is no such thing as a PADI 4-star center.

 

[spc751]

My LDS recently changed from SSI to PADI. What works for one shop does not always work for another. Just because a shop switches associations does not mean there is anything wrong with the association.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

My husband and I got PADI Scuba Diver certification in Roatan 3 years ago. We haven't had an opportunity to go diving since, but we're planning another trip to Roatan. We aren't able to go to the same resort as last time, and I noticed that the resort we're staying at this time is SSI. My first thought was no biggie, we'll just walk up the beach and dive with our old shop. But then I realized that the new resort and the old resort's dive shops are different locations of the same company, and now the shop where we got our PADI certification from is no longer a PADI shop.

Why would the shop change? And are they likely to still take us out with our PADI cards? (Note, we have Scuba Diver cards, not Open Water Diver, so we need an instructor with us.) Or should we look for another shop that's PADI?

Ah, the misnomer that haunts many a vacation diver...
Most responses here relate to the almighty dollar as the #1 issue, and I agree.

Insurance costs are the #1 reason a shop will change affiliations (based on my experience... especially if they are paying the full/partial insurance for their instructors).

To answer your real question... Show your "currently reputable" card when booking your dive and you will be able to dive with almost any dive charter. That is the simple truth (unless it is a true "advanced" or "specialized" dive).

My first certification was PADI (but, in my case, I had a good instructor). Shortly after my certification, the shop switched to SSI for insurance reasons. I went through the same shop to get all my specialty certifications to become a dive master... Shortly after that, the shop switched to NASE, again for insurance and incentive reasons. So, I became a NASE instructor.

The real thing to understand is that having ANY certification only means you passed a written test and a skills test that the instructor believes you did to the best of your ability and met the minimum requirements for a passing mark (This does not mean you have mastered any skill whatsoever). What do you call a lawyer in a class of 1000, who graduates 1000th in their class and passes the BAR exam on their 1000th attempt?

A lawyer.

 

[bfw]

To answer your real question... Show your "currently reputable" card when booking your dive and you will be able to dive with almost any dive charter. That is the simple truth (unless it is a true "advanced" or "specialized" dive).

What you're missing here is they don't have Open Water cards. They have PADI SCUBA Diver cards, which indicate completion of slightly more than half of the OW course. Such a card explicitly does not qualify someone to "dive with almost any dive charter." It also doesn't have a corresponding cert level within SSI, or almost any other agency. To any other agency, those cards are effectively referral forms for partial completion of another agency's equivalent to their lowest cert.

Most agencies' lowest cert qualifies the holder to dive without supervision. PADI's SCUBA Diver cert does not. (Actually, PADI has often said their OW cert doesn't qualify one to dive without supervision.) PADI has rigid standards for how many holders of the SCUBA Diver cert a pro of a given rating may supervise at once. An SSI shop would not have any way to even determine that standard unless one of the staff still had a PADI Instructor Manual lying around, and then they'd have to trust that the information in question wasn't superseded.

Call the shop. Explain the situation. Get assurances, preferably in writing.
THEN book your trip. Either that, or, as others have said, complete your OW certification.