Wing Question

[The Chad]

This is really geared toward Tobin as we had a discussion in another thread, so figured we could continue it here...

Lets say a diver has a bp/w set-up and is diving dbl Worthington steel 108's in fresh water. Also the diver is carrying a 13 cuft Argon bottle. Additionally he is carrying 3 Catalina C80's (2 for deco and 1 for travel). His drysuit takes 2lbs to offset w/ minimal undergarments. His planned dive is to 280'. What size wing would you recommend?

Additional info:

36lbs BP/ current wing, 2 regs, comp, lights, cutters, reels, smb's and your assorted bolt snaps
10lbs Argon bottle 13cuft steel w/first stage(guessing -8lbs full)
38lbs x 3 AL80's w/ 3 regs (guessing -5lbs each, full)
113lbs Worthington steel 108's w/ bands and manifold (thinking -26 full)

 

[Laruuk]

 

[jeraldjcook]

Sounds like you are changing the question a bit. I think Tobin was just saying that an 85# wing is a bit much for 2 AL80s in most circumstances. Not to mention a 65# wing with a single AL80.

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=201265

lol no, I dive 2 al80s sometimes with a 85# dbl bladder wing, but thats just because I don't want a garage full of wings and choose to dive the same set-up (minus tanks depending where I'm at) I was just looking toward the future for him....figured he could use the money saved on trading out gear on actually diving. Unfortunatlly that takes money out of your pocket, so my bad. Good number running on your part though

 

[cool_hardware52]

Sounds like you are changing the question a bit. I think Tobin was just saying that an 85# wing is a bit much for 2 AL80s in most circumstances. Not to mention a 65# wing with a single AL80.

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=201265

Ya think?

Tobin

 

[cool_hardware52]

This is really geared toward Tobin as we had a discussion in another thread, so figured we could continue it here...

Lets say a diver has a bp/w set-up and is diving dbl Worthington steel 108's in fresh water. Also the diver is carrying a 13 cuft Argon bottle. Additionally he is carrying 3 Catalina C80's (2 for deco and 1 for travel). His drysuit takes 2lbs to offset w/ minimal undergarments. His planned dive is to 280'. What size wing would you recommend?

Additional info:

36lbs BP/ current wing, 2 regs, comp, lights, cutters, reels, smb's and your assorted bolt snaps
10lbs Argon bottle 13cuft steel w/first stage(guessing -8lbs full)
38lbs x 3 AL80's w/ 3 regs (guessing -5lbs each, full)
113lbs Worthington steel 108's w/ bands and manifold (thinking -26 full)

This is simply a ridiculous scenario. Going to 280 with minimal undies? 36 lbs back plate? What possible bearing on required wing lift is the "dry weight" of any of your tanks? I could go on but I'd be wasting my time.

Tobin

 

[Rick Inman]

This is really geared toward Tobin as we had a discussion in another thread, so figured we could continue it here...

Lets say a diver has a bp/w set-up and is diving dbl Worthington steel 108's in fresh water. Also the diver is carrying a 13 cuft Argon bottle. Additionally he is carrying 3 Catalina C80's (2 for deco and 1 for travel). His drysuit takes 2lbs to offset w/ minimal undergarments. His planned dive is to 280'. What size wing would you recommend?

Additional info:

36lbs BP/ current wing, 2 regs, comp, lights, cutters, reels, smb's and your assorted bolt snaps
10lbs Argon bottle 13cuft steel w/first stage(guessing -8lbs full)
38lbs x 3 AL80's w/ 3 regs (guessing -5lbs each, full)
113lbs Worthington steel 108's w/ bands and manifold (thinking -26 full)

Hey, this is fun.

Just tossing out a couple of random thoughts...

The 108's limit your bottom time at 280', so I would take 3 40's instead of 80's (or maybe 2 40's and 1 80). Also I use a 6cf for argon. I'm too lazy to drag more weight than I need.

This dive works just fine for me with a 50-55# wing.

 

[The Chad]

Rick has got a good point with reguard to BT the 40's would work better, if your in a location that can fill them after each dive. I'm not saying do back to back deep dives, but maybe you could squeeze in something shallower if you had another set of dbls and dove the 80's.

Is a 65# wing overkill for a single 80? I think so, my point was pretty soon he may want to get into dbls. So it's something he may want to take into consideration when he starts looking at gear and thinking about where he wants to go with his diving. Is an 85# wing overkill for AL80's? Once again I think so. But whos to say that diver is not going to switch tanks, gear configurations or dive environments. Or maybe that diver comes from a cold area of the country and is used to steel 120's and brought his kit on vacation in the Bahamas.

I guess it being ridiculous depends on how you look at things...Going to 280' in minimal undies? It's 85 degrees @ 300' in Caymen so you could probally loose the drysuit and bottle. 36lbs for a BP/W setup? Yeah when you have 2 backup lights, a can light, 2 primary regs, 2 reels, 2 smb's, an emergency kit, slates, backup mask, a computer that doulbes as a brick, bolt snaps and who knows maybe even an EPIRB. Dry weight has nothing to do with bouyancy...it just points out as Rick said, its alot of weight and some ppl forget to add band, manifold or reg weight.

I'm not asking for anything so please don't feel that I'm wasting your time. I'm just challenging people to think outside the box. Like I said to the OP in the other thread "don't get caught up in hog or dir" look at it, take something from it, and find out what works for you.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Rick has got a good point with reguard to BT the 40's would work better, if your in a location that can fill them after each dive. I'm not saying do back to back deep dives, but maybe you could squeeze in something shallower if you had another set of dbls and dove the 80's.

Is a 65# wing overkill for a single 80? I think so, my point was pretty soon he may want to get into dbls.

Are you recommending using the same wing for singles and doubles?

So it's something he may want to take into consideration when he starts looking at gear and thinking about where he wants to go with his diving. Is an 85# wing overkill for AL80's? Once again I think so.

Then why suggest it, when you know it's not a good idea?

But whos to say that diver is not going to switch tanks, gear configurations or dive environments.

That's the beauty of a BP&W, it's modular. The diver can select the combination of plate and wing that suits the application. You are suggesting the equivalent of buying a tour bus instead of a sports car "because who knows may he'll have a big family some day"

I guess it being ridiculous depends on how you look at things...Going to 280' in minimal undies? It's 85 degrees @ 300' in Caymen so you could probally loose the drysuit and bottle.

Then why include it in your example?

36lbs for a BP/W setup? Yeah when you have 2 backup lights, a can light, 2 primary regs, 2 reels, 2 smb's, an emergency kit, slates, backup mask, a computer that doulbes as a brick, bolt snaps and who knows maybe even an EPIRB. Dry weight has nothing to do with bouyancy.

Then why mention it in your example?

I'm just challenging people to think outside the box. Like I said to the OP in the other thread "don't get caught up in hog or dir" look at it,

What specifically do you find wanting in the DIR approach to calculating required lift?


Tobin

 

[The Chad]

Lets see....
1. yes/no I don't see why a guy couldnt strap a single on for vacation
2. never said it was "bad" I said "overkill"
3. Gee I never knew you could change it so thanks. (see below)
4. Ever hear of neutral undergarments?
5. The conversation actually me made curious about the dry weight of gear
6. Don't find anything "wanting", was refurring to gear selection

Why don't you start marketing your wings differently? Have an OW wing, an AOW wing, a Rescue wing....ADV Nitrox, Deco, Cave and on and on. That way you'd be happy because you'd sell more wings.

All I'm saying is you don't need to change wings like your underwear. Your not going to die if your diving a 65# wing and only need a 40#. Yeah theres drag, air consumption and looking like a sandwich, but it's not the end of the world. You guys ever gonna make a dbl bladder wing? Or should a guy just buy two? And hey, when are you going to come out with that 53 and a half pounder?

 

[scarefaceDM]

oh my

why not a 100 lb wing with bungies and why nt...doubble bladder to boot!

hense going to 280' with that much gear and as you mentioned drop the drysuit...funny....where is your redundacy if you have a wing failure...and for the amount of time a diver would be at 280 feet with that much travel gas and back gas..the drysuit and argon set up would be the call of duty..it gets chilly even in 85 degree water. Deco obligations are kind of demanding at that depth and the amout of each stop...

Why not put the dive profile to play. Makes for interesting reading on a Friday afternoon.

Anyone have a VPLANNER TO PUNCH IN THE DECO OBIGATIONS FOR THAT TYPE OF PROFILE DIVE...

To answer your Question about what wing...55 to 70lb for that much gear. I have buddies whom use the 55lbs wing and it works just fine...We also use drysuits with exotherm 250 undies or the artic ones....and a peevalve of course.