Wreck Rights and Wrongs!

[DivingGal]

Duca

Yes parameters must be placed on the "illegal". For OD and I - both hailing from Ontario, it is illegal for anyone to retrieve artefacts from wrecks. There is a short time (in the span of things) that salvage rights do apply. But all that old stuff? Well by law, it now belongs to the Crown. You take it out, and you will be charged with a crime. Sure you may say "only if I'm caught". It's surprising how small our diving community is, and how the stories of "you should see what I brought up from the such-n-such wreck" get spread. I know of several people who retrieve artefacts have been fined. Others where the person(s) have willingly put the items back to avoid a criminal charge. And yet others who, if they come into this country again have outstanding warrants. We take things seriously here; our heritage is something we're proud of.

I know the rules of artefact retrieval are different around the world, so divers be aware what the rules are where you dive.

Sorry for getting on a soapbox, but it's something I am passionate about. As UKPhil said - take pictures, leave only bubbles....

 

[Duca]

No offense taken.. I've got my soapbox issues too..

International waters start 12 miles off the coast, don't they?

So if someone was to go off the coast of Canada more than 12 miles, the wrecks would be fair game, right?

 

[Zagnut]

I have to agree with Duca, in that, I don't think an old car seat in a '73 El Camino that someone ditched should be considered an artifact. It is junk. I will say however, that I'm generally against removing artifacts. If it is a military ship or a ship that a historical society has designated as a landmark. Leave it alone. It's kind of a letdown to find a wreck that has been scavenged of anything and everything that is of interest. The only time I would think that an artifact should be removed would be if it is in danger of quickly eroding or getting covered up by silt or something. Even then, I think any artifacts that would be removed should be put in a museum or at a local university or something and not in some LDS window as a decoration.

 

[Duca]

I wasn't refering to a car with bodies in it... Frankly, I would think that any wreck most of us are likely to dive on could've had bodies remoced from it long ago. As far as the site being sacred because of someone died there... uh...Not... What about [insert your own obvious example here].

As for true sites of historical significance.... that is another story. I don't think people should be allowed to go into George Washington's old headquarters and take stuff out of the displays, but that is a well established historical site. I would be against someone diving on the USS Arizona Memorial site and coming up with a souvenir, for example.

 

[DivingGal]

Originally posted by Duca
No offense taken.. I've got my soapbox issues too..

International waters start 12 miles off the coast, don't they?

So if someone was to go off the coast of Canada more than 12 miles, the wrecks would be fair game, right?

Well 12mi will get you into trouble. Canada claims 200 miles - mainly to protect our "Grand Banks" fishing. I am aware of other countries claim something similar.

and no, pullng junk is not likely to get you into trouble, but I'd check first....

 

[scubasam35]

I believe that artifacts from a shipwreck should be left in place unless the wreck is in danger of being sanded or silted in or destroyed by some means, manmade or mother nature. in either case of being sanded in or destroyed, it would be beneficial to retrieve the artifact and put them on display for all of the public to view. if the wreck is covered or destroyed then noone gets to enjoy the artifacts. but, its just my opinion.


sam
.

 

[Rick Murchison]

The poll as written has no answer, for every wreck is unique. Some need to be left alone, some need to be salvaged by professionals, and some only have value as booty. It just depends.
Rick

 

[bash]

This poll poses an interesting moral question: should divers keep all the pleasure and history to themselves, or should it be available for non-divers (as scubababy pointed out earlier).

I'm going to make a distinction between profession artifact recoverers, who are recovering artifacts for all to enjoy (eg museums) and joy-artifact-hunters, who recover artifacts for personal enjoyment.

I reckon that stuff should be available in Museums for people to look at. Museums (what is the plural for museum?) usually have/hire staff that are experts in preserving old stuff, and they make their 'finds' available for others to study/view.

On the other hand, I think that museums don't need more than one or two of a certain type of artifact. So if artifact hunting is left up to museum staff, they should only collect that which is useful /informative/interesting out of the water, they should only collect enough to satisfy their needs... and they should be obliged to take good care of the artifacts they recover. They should leave the rest behind. How many clay jars and mummies does a museum need, anyway?

Now we get to the good bit: this means that some artifacts would be left behind for rec divers to 'discover'.

I reckon rec divers should leave the remaining artifacts for other divers to discover.

-bash

 

[martinjc]

I couldn't answer the poll either as there are different answers in diferent situations:

1). Junk/Garbage - should be removed and disposed of in the proper manner.
2). Historical artifacts should be left where they are unless they are in danger of being quickly eroded, covered etc. - in which case they should be preserved properly and put in a museum. (If they cannot be preserved or there is no museum who wants the artifcats - leave them be and photograph the heck out of them before they are gone.
3). Treasure & valuables - should be raised for those staking a legal claim - if they choose to pay for such an operation. If no such claim exists - treasure hunters who want to spend the money to find such things should be allowed to take their bounty, but there should be restrictions on what they can actually take from the ship itself (you can take the gold coins & jewelry - leave the built in safe, porthole covers, etc.) to preserve the historical significance of the ship.

 

[svs3]

there is a debate on this very subject occuring on techdiver. Here is a link to what I think is the first post on the subject: http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?51130,subject . The subject line for the thread is : UNESCO.

Sam