Yes/No requirement for Med form

[doctormike]

This is the reason I don't sign them. I'm a licensed M.D. board certified in two specialties that cover most of the questions on the medical form. I have declined signing these forms. If I were to sign one, the diver would have had to answer all the questions yes or no, and I would have done a complete history and a comprehensive physical exam.

But I still won't sign it. It may not be the diver, a trusted, well-liked patient or friend, that I'm afraid of. It's his family members that I don't know and their plaintiff's attorney that will go after me.

I would consider any medical form that doesn't have the questions on the first page answered yes or no, even if signed by a doctor, to be incomplete because I wouldn't know if the signing doctor was aware of any medical conditions that might exist. Sure, the applicant can answer no to everything, but then some responsibility rests on him/her.

PADI may obfuscate the issue, but I can superimpose my own criteria if I am to consider signing a medical form or accepting one as a boat captain or instructor (I am neither).

Dunno. I mean just like diving, ever doctor has to come up with their own level of comfort with risk. I would never suggest that you take any action in the course of your medical practice that you were uncomfortable with. And maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying - but I take your post to mean that you would never sign one because of the medicolegal risk involved? Or do you mean you would only sign it if they answered all the questions yes or no on the first page? Sorry if I'm not understanding so well - correct me if I'm wrong.

But if you won't sign them under any circumstances - and you are probably far more qualified than me - who will sign them? I guess you can just say that some other doctor can do an H&P and make a clinical judgement about whether or not that patient is fit to dive, but that's sort of kicking the can down the road. Patients with many of those chronic medical conditions on the form are entitled to dive if they aren't at significant excess risk, right?

You do a history. You do an exam. You make a judgement that this person has a reasonably low risk of a medical event while diving despite the fact that he answered yes to one of those questions. You aren't lying or fudging anything, you are giving your best clinical judgement. Are you guaranteeing that this person will never suffer a medical problem while diving? Of course not. How could you ever do that?

Every day in my practice I make judgements that might be wrong. I reassure parents of newborn babies that their child's airway is OK, but I could miss a congenital airway anomaly on an office exam. Still, I have to move forward, I have to give each patient my best effort, even though I'm human and fallible. So while I don't sign these often, I would still do it if I felt comfortable that I had adequately evaluated the patient...

 

[KeithG]

We currently prefer to do business with operators that do not ask any of these invasive questions.

 

[Superlyte27]

My suggestion would then be, keep your mouth shut, and check “NO” for every answer.

 

[tursiops]

We currently prefer to do business with operators that do not ask any of these invasive questions.

That pretty much says you don't want to take any more scuba training. Your choice.

 

[Rred]

I'm from the old school, i.e. my C-card means "Just give the man some air and leave him alone." And I'm all for privacy.

On the other hand, if I were IN BUSINESS in this litigious society? As an instructor I have to follow the standards of my organization, or my insurer probably will say a quick "Not our problem, you didn't follow standards." if something goes to court.

If the PADI form asks for YES/NO standards, and there's no written protocol for waiving the form, or using a release signed by a doctor of unknown credentials, unknown competence, and the usual "Oh, that's when you go swimming with oxygen tanks?" information base?

If the student doesn't give you something that PADI expressly accepts, you're entering a minefield.

There's always a compromise. So you can say to the student "OK, I respect your concern for privacy, but I'm also in an awkward legal position. So you take this liability release, run it by your lawyer if you want, but bring it back to me with your notarized signature and we can go forward without the PADI release." And make sure the student is of legal age to enter contracts.

You can figure out a release, or have a lawyer draw one up. (Better idea.) But legally? Is a couple of hundred bucks that you might make from one student, worth a million dollar lawsuit if it turns out she does have "well controlled epilepsy and cardiac arthymia and a PFO" or some other little problems that her doctor tends to gloss over?

 

[Superlyte27]

Easier to just say, “I might not be the instructor for you. Good Day”

“I said ‘good day’ you son of a bi***” -Fez That 70’s Show

 

[KeithG]

That pretty much says you don't want to take any more scuba training. Your choice.

Good point. If you want additional formal training, then you need to be prepared to deal with the forms.

 

[KeithG]

My suggestion would then be, keep your mouth shut, and check “NO” for every answer.

I claim that SB has seen this recommendation before, but this leaves the question of "are you now screwed by your insurance if something goes wrong?" which I think has never been properly answered. If you have no insurance, then who cares. If you have insurance...

My divebuddy worked in the (life) insurance industry and is also very risk averse (these are not related concepts). Getting caught lying to your insurance does not turn as a benefit to you. In general they give you your money back and pretend your were never a client.

Note that lying on an application (ommission of details) and lying on a claim (fraud!) are treated as very different situations.

 

[Superlyte27]

So, I actually own an insurance company. In Florida at least, you can’t be denied benefits. If you have a policy you are paying for, and you get sick or die (health or life insurance) the claim is getting paid. You are insured against stupid. Which would be answering a question wrong and diving even when you said “No” on a diabetes question.

 

[Superlyte27]

I claim that SB has seen this recommendation before, but this leaves the question of "are you now screwed by your insurance if something goes wrong?" which I think has never been properly answered. If you have no insurance, then who cares. If you have insurance...

My divebuddy worked in the (life) insurance industry and is also very risk averse (these are not related concepts). Getting caught lying to your insurance does not turn as a benefit to you. In general they give you your money back and pretend your were never a client.

Note that lying on an application (ommission of details) and lying on a claim (fraud!) are treated as very different situations.

In florida, if the Life Insurance policy is 2 year old, the only way the benefit won’t pay out is if you killed the person who had the life insurance and you were the beneficiary.