Would you stay away from a dive shop that had an accident?

[formernuke]

You're playing a game of semantics. Scuba diving is very safe when you get training and follow the safety rules. Obviously it's not safe when you're not trained and don't follow the safety rules.
Telling people, especially beginners, that scuba diving is 'extremely dangerous' is fake news.

BTW: Hiking is not a sport and it's debatable if baseball could actually be considered a sport.

No, scuba diving is very dangerous but can be done safely if proper training and risk management is done.

Saying it is safe is fake news.

 

[noserider]

debatable if baseball could actually be considered a sport.

Its based on a UK game played by pre high school kids and women called Rounders

 

[BRT]

We had been diving about 10 years when we found a dive shop with an owner who was considered to be a risk taker. He taught us how to dive. By doing things that other shops wouldn't consider. Had a great 12 years diving with him and came out safe divers.

 

[CT-Rich]

Hiking, karate, Hiking, football, soccer, baseball, skiing etc. In fact there are very few that are more dangerous.

Again you do not have to show a certain card to get skis and get on the lift. You do for ANY dive rental or charter.

By your reasoning. Flying is so safe so pilots don't need to do pre flight checks anymore, plane mechanics should do what you do with your car. After all flying is safe according to you so all that mitigation is totally not necessary. Those things are in place for a reason.

Same with diving, breathing underwater is inherently extremely dangerous. So we as collective group have a lot of mitigation in place. Cert cards required to rent gear or get on boats, pre dive checks, buddy checks etc.

The real danger with you and berndo is divers believing you that it's safe and getting complacent. Well this is a safe activity so I don't need to have my gear serviced, I don't need to make sure it's clean gas, I don't need to do pre dive checks etc.

A lot of actual dive incidents happen because of diver error, most of those are because of getting complacent and skipping safety related checks.

It’s safe BECAUSE of all the mitigation. The same is true for airlines.

Baseball is safe? The batter backstop, batter helmets and padded gloves don’t make it safe? I’ve know several people who broke arms and fingers playing ball. A friend almost died when he was beaned with an errant pitch.

Basic recreational hiking is probably safer than diving, but people still die from exposure, dehydration and falls every year. They go out ignorant and unprepared and die. Happens a lot with boating, also.

Diving is a self regulated outdoor activity. There are no SCUBA police. You can legallY buy scuba gear with no training and use it unsupervised, including your CCR. Shops and vendors worry about the civil consequences of providing services and equipments to those without training.

WHY? The training infrastructure exists. You can buy a motorcycle and take it off road with no training or safety equipment, kill Yourself and it is unlikely the guy selling you the bike will get sued.

Way more people die skiing than scuba diving. Done correctly, the average scuba diver needs good judgement and almost no skill. Average skiers has to have Judgement, skill and reaction time.

 

[CT-Rich]

Deaths per mile flown :no more than 1 for every 2,000,000,000 person-miles flown

Deaths per mile driven: 1 to 1.3 per 100,000,000 miles driven.

Flying is way safer than driving.

 

[CT-Rich]

At least 17 people died at Colorado ski areas during the 2022-23 winter season

Colorado's ski resorts saw 17 skier deaths for the 2022-23 season, including four deaths from medical issues and five collisions with trees.

coloradosun.com

Fatalities: Inexperience a Big Factor - DIVER magazine

Diving Medicine By Dr. David Sawatzky Every year approximately 100 people die in North America while diving, and another 100 die while diving in the rest of the world. Diving is a relatively high ‘risk’ activity. By that I mean there are many ways in which you can be injured while diving and...

divermag.com

About 100 US dive fatalities a year (1 in 200,000 dives). That includes cave, tech, wreck, CCR and untrained idiots. A diver who has a 500 dive career has a 0.25% chance of dying while diving. That seems to be pretty safe. If you break it down the untrained idiots might make up a good portion.

 

[thomschoon]

Back to the question, I would avoid a shop that had a recent negative event until I had an understanding of what took place. I started diving in 1976 and did all kinds of things I wouldn’t do today. I have also broken many bones and bank accounts racing open wheel cars, mountain bikes, and flying small planes. I believe we manage a certain amount of our personal risk and use information to manage to avoid risk other people try to place on us. I avoid sketchy operations as I like being alive.

 

[Cthippo]

What is interesting about this whole conversation is less the reality than how we individually interpret that reality. Some people want to believe that diving is a safe activity and some (myself included) prefer to believe that it is a fairly dangerous activity.

For myself, I don't enjoy activities that don't carry an element of personal danger. I have no interest in doing things that are safe. The element of risk is a big part of what makes it enjoyable. Conversely, being continuously aware that yes, THIS dive might kill me also helps keep me in the right mindset to take it seriously. It's harder to get complacent when you are directly contemplating what might go wrong.

 

[CT-Rich]

What is interesting about this whole conversation is less the reality than how we individually interpret that reality. Some people want to believe that diving is a safe activity and some (myself included) prefer to believe that it is a fairly dangerous activity.

For myself, I don't enjoy activities that don't carry an element of personal danger. I have no interest in doing things that are safe. The element of risk is a big part of what makes it enjoyable. Conversely, being continuously aware that yes, THIS dive might kill me also helps keep me in the right mindset to take it seriously. It's harder to get complacent when you are directly contemplating what might go wrong.

I like the risk factor of diving. But most diving is in very benign condition. Millions of dives occur in places with good visibility, low currents off of boats with guides and first aide training. Almost all have dive computers. The first dive at most resorts is to identify who needs extra attention.

When you compare that type of resort diving to a lot of coldwater shore diving that I do and see, diving is pretty safe. And the numbers are in favor of diving being pretty safe. It’s not whether I condone loosy goosy diving, but the vast majority of dives are in pretty benign conditions.

If you are doing a lot of cold water, low visibility diving, it can make it seem a lot riskier than most dives are. That I am doing those types of dives, makes me pay attention.

 

[formernuke]

Deaths per mile flown :no more than 1 for every 2,000,000,000 person-miles flown

Deaths per mile driven: 1 to 1.3 per 100,000,000 miles driven.

Flying is way safer than driving.

No it is not, flying is more dangerous. It is done safely because of risk mitigation. And pretty much every other sport or hobby is safer than diving. Period.