Info Are Pony Bottles Dangerous?

[MidOH]

Bottle-nose dolphin.

Like a pony, but bigger so you can use it as a stage too.

 

[tbone1004]

Branching off another thread, which went mildly off-topic:

1. Are pony bottles dangerous?
2. What are the hazards of pony bottles?
3. What safety advice would you give to someone using a pony bottle?
4. What other advice (sizing, selection, configuration, etc) would you give for pony bottle use?

This is mostly focused on #1, but I've included #2, #3, and #4 to make the thread a little more useful. Given this is somewhat of a debate thread, remember to keep it civil, we don't want the mods to come along with their tools.

1. they are not inherently dangerous
2. assuming they are configured properly, the biggest danger IMO and IME is the false sense of security that occurs when people undersize them or undertrain with them
3. figure out if you actually need this system and if there are other configurations that may make more sense
4. learn about rock bottom calculations

 

[MyBuddy]

Maybe it should be called a bottle instead of a bottle. Nobody beats a dead , but they sure do .

You say “Nobody”, but I’m confident that someone has done it. There’s some weird people out there man.

 

[mr_v]

I've always viewed pony bottles as equipment focused on solving skills problems.

You should always plan your dives, plan gas consumption, and practice emergency drills.

If you're a rec diver, you must dive with a buddy who will be your first source of assistance shall you end up running out in emergency (e.g., a critical first stage failure). A pony bottle on a rec dive may give you a false sense of security or let you cut corners.

If you're a tech diver, you probably have doubles/sidemount/ccr and know how to stage, so the pony is not useful.

 

[MidOH]

Maybe.

What if you don't trust your buddy? There's been a few times where a cesa started to look a little uncomfortable.

Car dives, shore dive, dives where I'm not beholden to a boats MO, I'd sure like a redundant solution.

 

[Boarderguy]

I've always viewed pony bottles as equipment focused on solving skills problems.

You should always plan your dives, plan gas consumption, and practice emergency drills.

If you're a rec diver, you must dive with a buddy who will be your first source of assistance shall you end up running out in emergency (e.g., a critical first stage failure). A pony bottle on a rec dive may give you a false sense of security or let you cut corners.

If you're a tech diver, you probably have doubles/sidemount/ccr and know how to stage, so the pony is not useful.

What? Tell me you only dive with all black gear without saying all your gear is black...

A pony gives you a source a gas to be used in an emergency or an underwater incident prior to it becoming an emergency. Proper gas planning and e-drills have nothing to do with maintaining an additional source of 13-20 ft³ of gas.

Solo divers (myself) don't have a buddy. When we do buddy up we don't change our gear configuration and still have our pony because it's part of our e-plan.

I've had to donate my primary in a high current overhead situation (boat traffic) while on a scooter. My pony and backgas reserve kept us at the bottom where it was safe until we could surface near shore. THAT is the purpose of a pony and gas planning. Shịt happens.

 

[johndiver999]

I've always viewed pony bottles as equipment focused on solving skills problems.

You should always plan your dives, plan gas consumption, and practice emergency drills.

If you're a rec diver, you must dive with a buddy who will be your first source of assistance shall you end up running out in emergency (e.g., a critical first stage failure). A pony bottle on a rec dive may give you a false sense of security or let you cut corners.

If you're a tech diver, you probably have doubles/sidemount/ccr and know how to stage, so the pony is not useful.

Why does the pony give a "false sense of security"? It is a completely independent and redundant system that has the capacity to get the diver to the surface with no compromises on ascent rate etc.

I bet there are way, way more instances where the buddy system "provides a false sense of security" compared to documented cases of the pony bottle failing to deliver the diver to the surface. We hear about problems with buddy separation all the time.

 

[lexvil]

A pony serves the same purpose even if you dive doubles.

 

[mr_v]

Why does the pony give a "false sense of security"? It is a completely independent and redundant system that has the capacity to get the diver to the surface with no compromises on ascent rate etc.

I bet there are way, way for instances where the buddy system "provides a false sense of security" compared to documented cases of the pony bottle failing to deliver the diver to the surface. We hear about problems with buddy separation all the time.

Here is a better question: Are there any other approaches that will get divers to the surface safely in case of emergency?

While there is nothing dangerous about a pony bottle per se, people may subconsciously cut corners when incorporating pony bottles in dive gear. Do you actually know what bottle size you need for a specific dive? Do you practice emergency drills to ensure that you're using valves? Do you know the type of failures that pony bottles will actually solve? Are there any other ways of dealing with those failures?

Yes, buddy separation occurs and, again, it is a skills problem. Many dive incidents begin prior to divers entering water. Poor dive planning, bad gear, lack of proper team planning, and so on.

The point is - think about the alternatives, problems, and solutions before you start strapping extra gear. In many cases, thinking, practice, and team work will benefit you more than an extra 40cf.

 

[mr_v]

What? Tell me you only dive with all black gear without saying all your gear is black...

You will be disappointed.

A pony gives you a source a gas to be used in an emergency or an underwater incident prior to it becoming an emergency. Proper gas planning and e-drills have nothing to do with maintaining an additional source of 13-20 ft³ of gas.

Proper gas planning prevents incidents before they become emergencies.

Solo divers (myself) don't have a buddy. When we do buddy up we don't change our gear configuration and still have our pony because it's part of our e-plan.

I've had to donate my primary in a high current overhead situation (boat traffic) while on a scooter. My pony and backgas reserve kept us at the bottom where it was safe until we could surface near shore. THAT is the purpose of a pony and gas planning. Shịt happens.

I solo dive, too. Here is the question I'd ask based on the example you've presented: what is the worst case exist scenario and how much gas do I need to take with me to make it happen.