Force Fin Sticker shock

[Nemrod]

I have owned and still own Force Fins. I have had three different pairs, the Original, the Pro and the Pro Tan or whatever it is. I enjoy using them but they are really a niche fin. I find them noisy and inefficient for surface swimming and snorkeling, slap, slap, slap. It is true they are suitable for the flutter kick only and essentially suck at a frog or side scissor etc. I bought them for tropical travel due to their lightweight but since they are unsuitable for snorkeling this left me carrying a second set of fins which defeated my reason for getting them to begin with, to lighten up and simplify my travel kit.

I also find that the Force Fin lacks maneuverability and fine control, the design is intended to produce most of it's thrust on the down kick and little or nothing on the recovery. OK, fine but since the fin folds on the up stroke that also means you cannot exert any upward force to rotate your body along it's axis. I find them easy to drop the bow (head) but difficult to raise the bow since they cannot apply any real upward force.

If they make a polyurethane Jet Fin in clear blue or yellow I will give you 700 dollars for that and heck, I bet you could install whiskers on a Jet Fin blade for improved dynamic sinusoidal asymmetric thrust vectoring.

N

 

[Susanne]

Scubacom:

In the US, consumer advocacy will always be a minor player but it is not going away. As in the recent economic crisis, there will always be uninformed consumers who bite the apple making it more imperative that consumers be informed.

So now you want to blame the national economic debt crisis on a company that conducts research, development and manufacturing in the United States, specifies all materials used in the manufacture of its products be made in the US, employs US citizens and contributes to reduction of the national debt by exporting its US made products? I too would love to know who you are because you obviously have not only an opinion, but an agenda.

 

[Scott M]

I have owned and still own Force Fins. I have had three different pairs, the Original, the Pro and the Pro Tan or whatever it is. I enjoy using them but they are really a niche fin. I find them noisy and inefficient for surface swimming and snorkeling, slap, slap, slap. It is true they are suitable for the flutter kick only and essentially suck at a frog or side scissor etc. I bought them for tropical travel due to their lightweight but since they are unsuitable for snorkeling this left me carrying a second set of fins which defeated my reason for getting them to begin with, to lighten up and simplify my travel kit.

I also find that the Force Fin lacks maneuverability and fine control, the design is intended to produce most of it's thrust on the down kick and little or nothing on the recovery. OK, fine but since the fin folds on the up stroke that also means you cannot exert any upward force to rotate your body along it's axis. I find them easy to drop the bow (head) but difficult to raise the bow since they cannot apply any real upward force.

If they make a polyurethane Jet Fin in clear blue or yellow I will give you 700 dollars for that and heck, I bet you could install whiskers on a Jet Fin blade for improved dynamic sinusoidal asymmetric thrust vectoring.

N

So what your saying is you don't like the fins because of your lack of technique then?...................Thats what I was told when I made the almost identical statement as you. Just sayin!

 

[Susanne]

I have owned and still own Force Fins. I have had three different pairs, the Original, the Pro and the Pro Tan or whatever it is. I enjoy using them but they are really a niche fin. I find them noisy and inefficient for surface swimming and snorkeling, slap, slap, slap. It is true they are suitable for the flutter kick only and essentially suck at a frog or side scissor etc. I bought them for tropical travel due to their lightweight but since they are unsuitable for snorkeling this left me carrying a second set of fins which defeated my reason for getting them to begin with, to lighten up and simplify my travel kit.

I also find that the Force Fin lacks maneuverability and fine control, the design is intended to produce most of it's thrust on the down kick and little or nothing on the recovery. OK, fine but since the fin folds on the up stroke that also means you cannot exert any upward force to rotate your body along it's axis. I find them easy to drop the bow (head) but difficult to raise the bow since they cannot apply any real upward force.

If they make a polyurethane Jet Fin in clear blue or yellow I will give you 700 dollars for that and heck, I bet you could install whiskers on a Jet Fin blade for improved dynamic sinusoidal asymmetric thrust vectoring.

N

Thank you for your patronage -- 3 pairs of fins that you don't like? Your experience is typical of those who have used jet fins for years. I liken it to driving an automatic after adapting to a clutch. You're looking for resistance where it is not, when you push back against the fin. Jet Fin converts also have been the most vocal Force Fin advocates because once they adapt, the psychological impact of how they have been torturing themselves is the most dramatic.

With Force Fins, you are obtaining thrust where you are not pushing against the fin, or forward momentum on that Force Fin backstroke or recovery. Its the Snap of the Force Fin blade doing the work for you, not your leg muscles. I think its time to video Bob's flip test. It will show you what is going on, and why we use such costly high performance materials. I'll ask Blair to do prepare and post it through Force Fin's sub-forum when he returns from his diving expedition.

Oh, and about frog kicking, my last dive trip, I Frog kicked entirely for a number of dives in my Force Fins. I think it is once again, a training rather than fin issue.

 

[Bob]

.
Oh, and about frog kicking, my last dive trip, I Frog kicked entirely for a number of dives in my Force Fins. I think it is once again, a training rather than fin issue.

Are you suggesting that a diver has to have special training to effectively use these fins? almtree: Bob

 

[Nemrod]

I will stick with what I said as being my opinion based on my use of the fins in my diving adventures. I am sorry if you don't like my opinion. As to kick type, I can perform any kick and including doing them upside down so that little attempt at redirection will not work with me.

I like the Force Fins for certain types of diving and continue to use them but unfortunately they are not an all around fin. They are horrid for surface snorkeling and are incapable of alternate kicks, I will maintain their inability to provide effective force on the up stroke does in fact limit manuverability and fine control and usefullness for alternate kicking styles and types.

BTW, I have been using Force Fins since about 1986 give or take, I am not new to them so that tactic of blaming my problem on the Jet Fins will not work. I fully understand Force Fins and the preferred techniques with them, I actually can swim and have competed in long distance ocean swimming, I will as I said, stay with what I said, lol. They are a niche fin, not an all around fin for the reasons stated.

If you can frog kick effectively in a Force Fin Pro then whatever you are doing is not the tech style frog kick that uses the BOTTOM face of the fin to provide forward propulsion, the Force Fin Pro simply folds up and and is ineffective when using this traditional kick.

N

 

[reo]

Then, I guess they're not DIR.

 

[evil_xander]

If they make a polyurethane Jet Fin in clear blue or yellow I will give you 700 dollars for that and heck, I bet you could install whiskers on a Jet Fin blade for improved dynamic sinusoidal asymmetric thrust vectoring.

N

Now now, that's aeronautics speaking from you!

 

[Susanne]

If you can frog kick effectively in a Force Fin Pro then whatever you are doing is not the tech style frog kick that uses the BOTTOM face of the fin to provide forward propulsion, the Force Fin Pro simply folds up and and is ineffective when using this traditional kick.

N

Thank you once again for your patronage, and I have no problem whatsoever with your opinion. I hope you appreciate mine as well as the facts. You are confirming my point. The technique you are describing is the technique for frog kicking with Jet Fins. I, as well as you, can frog kick, flutter kick, dolphin kick, spin about and go backwards in Force Fins too. I prefer not to do so with Jet Fins. How they work for you is about training and technique. BTW I learned to dive in Jet Fins too. The choices we had were Jet Fins or UDT Duck Feet... oh dear! I just dated myself.

 

[Scott M]

Susanne, Is there video somewhere like there is for all these kicks using Jets that we could all see of these different finning techniques using the FF's? Preferably in the Pro series as this would be the series I believe the average diver would purchasde.

Regards