Dive Computer Technology?

[Kern]

OLED displays are more expensive than LCD's. They use more power than an LCD. Therefore battery usage goes up, so power supply requirements go up adding to the expense. There are also longevity issues with OLED.

If you want to run algorithms more complex than a neo Haldnian type you need a CPU with more power so it can crunch enough numbers to do it in real time, therefore more expense. Such a CPU is not only more expensive in itself, but they require more power, so once again the power supply needs to be increased.

 

[ianr33]

Yes. thats a Euro symbol.

I recently bought a Shearwater Pursuit. Algorithm is Buhlmann ZHL-16C . It allows pretty much any user definable gradient factor to be used. That means you can match just about any profile you want with it. I much prefer that to a manufacturers "conservatism factor" (even though it does not have a heart rate monitor )

. There are also longevity issues with OLED.

Could you hazard a guess as to the likely lifetime of the screen on the Liquivision?

 

[kanonfodr]

OLED displays are more expensive than LCD's. They use more power than an LCD. Therefore battery usage goes up, so power supply requirements go up adding to the expense. There are also longevity issues with OLED.

I don't mean to be a troll, but OLED displays actually use less power than comparable LCDs because they don't require the battery-crushing backlight that LCDs do.

If you want to run algorithms more complex than a neo Haldnian type you need a CPU with more power so it can crunch enough numbers to do it in real time, therefore more expense. Such a CPU is not only more expensive in itself, but they require more power, so once again the power supply needs to be increased.

That is very true. But I don't see how it would be much of a problem to cut, say, a Buhlmann algo that has been modified for less conservatism and upload it to the computer. Granted, one doing so would need to really know his stuff in several areas to be safe.

But I believe that the Liquivision gives the diver the opportunity to plan his dive on DecoPlanner and then transmit that plan to the DC, thus the computer and the diver would be on the same sheet of music as far as deco planning goes.

Peace,
Greg

 

[Kern]

Could you hazard a guess as to the likely lifetime of the screen on the Liquivision?

Not really, when I was trying to find such info prior to making a purchase, I found everything from, OLED's are an expensive piece of garbage that won't last 5 minutes to 20,000 hours. That's not the X1 screen in particular, it hadn't been out long enough at the time, but OLED displays in general. At this date, I can say that there have been some problems with some X1 displays, but I can't tell you what the percentage is.

As my warranty expired recently, let's just say I hope the 10,000 to 20,000 hours will turn out to be the case.

 

[tgsmith]

But I believe that the Liquivision gives the diver the opportunity to plan his dive on DecoPlanner and then transmit that plan to the DC, thus the computer and the diver would be on the same sheet of music as far as deco planning goes.

I might be missing the point, but I don't get it. Why would you want to import a plan from your desktop planning software into the computer? The point of having a computer is that it's on the fly. Do you mean you define your gases on the PC using desktop planning software and then download this into the dive computer? Or are you actually talking about downloading a decompression plan into a dive computer(Which I can't fathom the purpose of such)? That'd be like viewing a dive table in electronic form that you could have saved $1740 on and just written them down on slates.....

The only decompression computer I knew of that really needed to have stuff imported into it from a PC was the Cochran using it's "Analyst" software. I know with my Shearwater you can set it up on the computer itself......the only thing it does with my PC is upload the dive logs.

When a computer doesn't have the requisite brainpower it effects it's ability to calculate a decompression schedule or function at all. Witness the VR3 with it's infamous, "SEE TABLES" message.

I can't tell you why more computers aren't using the OLED's yet. But I can tell you my Shearwater Pursuit is big, ugly, simplistic, but actually works 100% of the time and costs less than most top-end technical computers. Function over form.

 

[tgsmith]

I just read that and realized I was kind of rambling and incoherent, or completely off-topic to the question at hand. I was trying to say something, but I got lost.

eh, oh well. safe diving.

I might be missing the point, but I don't get it. Why would you want to import a plan from your desktop planning software into the computer? The point of having a computer is that it's on the fly. Do you mean you define your gases on the PC using desktop planning software and then download this into the dive computer? Or are you actually talking about downloading a decompression plan into a dive computer(Which I can't fathom the purpose of such)? That'd be like viewing a dive table in electronic form that you could have saved $1740 on and just written them down on slates.....

The only decompression computer I knew of that really needed to have stuff imported into it from a PC was the Cochran using it's "Analyst" software. I know with my Shearwater you can set it up on the computer itself......the only thing it does with my PC is upload the dive logs.

When a computer doesn't have the requisite brainpower it effects it's ability to calculate a decompression schedule or function at all. Witness the VR3 with it's infamous, "SEE TABLES" message.

I can't tell you why more computers aren't using the OLED's yet. But I can tell you my Shearwater Pursuit is big, ugly, simplistic, but actually works 100% of the time and costs less than most top-end technical computers. Function over form.

 

[giles45shop]

Just to clarify, you don't import your plan from the desktop to the computer. The Liquidvision running VPlanner Live uses the same algorithm as the VPlanner desktop dive planning software. So if you cut tables in VPlanner, and follow the exact profile of your tables, the computer will provide the same result. If your actual dive is different than the tables you cut, the VPlanner Live adjusts on the fly, just like any other dive computer, but it doesn't lock you out like the VR3.

 

[DiveNav]

....If you want to run algorithms more complex than a neo Haldnian type you need a CPU with more power so it can crunch enough numbers to do it in real time, therefore more expense. Such a CPU is not only more expensive in itself, but they require more power, so once again the power supply needs to be increased.....

I don't agree with this statement .... these days you can get an arm16 based microcontroller with embedded memory, plenty of power to run any deco algorithms you want - and more to spare.
They cost nothing and they consume nothing

Prices are high because volumes are low

Alberto

 

[Kern]

I don't mean to be a troll, but OLED displays actually use less power than comparable LCDs because they don't require the battery-crushing backlight that LCDs do.

I don't mind discussion, I don't actually consider it trolling.

Well, I'm no expert on these things, but when I looked into such things, the consensus seemed to be that OLED need more power than an LCD. Do you leave your backlight on during the entire dive, I cant remember ever turning mine on during an OW daytime dive.

That is very true. But I don't see how it would be much of a problem to cut, say, a Buhlmann algo that has been modified for less conservatism and upload it to the computer. Granted, one doing so would need to really know his stuff in several areas to be safe.

That is in fact my point. You can load any neo Haldanian such as Buhlmann onto any of today's crop of computers. There are however very few presently with the power to run a fully iterative dual phase algorithm in real time. So if VPM-B using V-Planner is my preferred desktop software, & I want a DC that is capable of running that same algorithm, it need's to have a more powerful CPU to do so.

But I believe that the Liquivision gives the diver the opportunity to plan his dive on DecoPlanner and then transmit that plan to the DC, thus the computer and the diver would be on the same sheet of music as far as deco planning goes.

Peace,
Greg

Stop believing, start knowing. Sorry couldn't help myself, but that's not the way an X1 works.

 

[ptyx]

I might be missing the point, but I don't get it. Why would you want to import a plan from your desktop planning software into the computer?

Not import, but define. So the computer can remind you to switch gas, tell you the optimal ascent rate, etc. Also according to some X1 VPM software FAQ, deco computations are bidirectional in some situations (i.e. knowledge about available deco gases will impact the dive plan before reaching deco).

Could you hazard a guess as to the likely lifetime of the screen on the Liquivision?

From the X1 manual: The OLED display is rated to retain more than half its initial brightness after 40,000 hours of use.

[...]battery usage goes up, so power supply requirements go up adding to the expense.

That could be a big issue for using the technology on mainstream computers: X1 doc says 30h underwater battery time, and it requires an AC adapter for charging. It would be an increase in manufacturing costs (adapter, dock and connectors) and a loss of convenience which is hard to justify.