Reserve limit 500 psi always? What about doubles?

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but a more proper statement would be
I'm a Tech Diver and I'm Ok
I sleep all night and I dive all day!
I wear Jet fins
A big can light
Dive thirds and wear a bra!
I wish I was a girlie
just like my dear Papa!
(To the tune of Monty Python's "I'm a Lumber Jack") [/humor]

I think the point that was being made... a tech diver, any tech diver, will come back with far more than 500 psi IF they are following even the most simple guidelines. Like all disciplines, the rule of thirds has a number of caveats and mods that will limit the amount of air you use before you turn your dive. Lengthy decompression is just one of those considerations. I think another discussion about the "real" rule of thirds is appropriate, but not here.

Also, if you are on a mixed dive boat with with single and double tank divers, the captain and crew have their hands full. The last thing they need is to be challenged openly about their policies. This is especially true if the captain doesn't know what to expect of you as a diver.
 
Why dive doubles on a recreational dive? I can think of at least two reasons right off hand. One is to avoid swapping out tanks or filling between dives. The other is to have lovely loads of gas for long, shallow cruises.

On our Red Sea trip, we did more than one dive that ran over 90 minutes. Why not? The water was warm, the dives were shallow and sunlit (or wonderfully dark and critter-filled) and we had SCADS of gas . . .
 
Yes you nailed it.
I had my twin 98's & a single 80 filled with nitrox 32.
Why go get two empty 80's filled when these are sitting here ready to go?
There were 3 dives this day.
After the 2nd dive, I still has 1400 of 2400 psi in the twin lp 98's. So I ddin't change to the 80.

Thanks to everyone who answered in.

Yes it was the Captain's attitude that pissed me off.
Ultimately I shrugged it off," fine be that way" I thought.

As an instructor (retired now) I always taught my students to make inteligent/prudent decisions.
The question always arises" is it ok to violate the 500 psi limit or should I cut the safety stop short.
Obviously this gets into better gas managment & planning advise, etc but the short answer is yes.
It takes about 50 psi/min (new divers) to do the safety stop, so you'd surface with 350.
Not a habbit to get into, but assuming your buddy has more than 500 psi, & given the alternative of blowing the safety stop ,
I'd opt to do the stop.

MIKE D
Why dive doubles on a recreational dive? I can think of at least two reasons right off hand. One is to avoid swapping out tanks or filling between dives. The other is to have lovely loads of gas for long, shallow cruises.

On our Red Sea trip, we did more than one dive that ran over 90 minutes. Why not? The water was warm, the dives were shallow and sunlit (or wonderfully dark and critter-filled) and we had SCADS of gas . . .
 
[Off topic] ajd wrote
The only reason I see using doubles on rec is extremely high SAC and in that case I would want the diver on the boat with 500psi in any case!!
Well, here is another reason -- in addition to the many already given.

I just finished a 3 day dive trip where we did 3 dives/day -- out, 2 dives, back, eat, out, 1 dive. The boat filled tanks between the dives on the boat and the Skipper requested I bring my LP doubles rather than an HP single. Really made no never-mind to me -- pretty much same amount of gas and weight (HP 130 vs. old style LP 72s).

Take away from this, there are LOTS of variables in diving -- but "Being Back On The Boat With 500 PSI Is Not One Of Them!"

Hmmm, has anyone actually TAUGHT a student HOW to be "Back on the boat with 500 PSI?"
 
I don't dive doubles, but if you can simply shut down the isolator and save 500 psi, it is not worth getting in a pissing match over the rules. Plus, speaking from experience, the deck-hand/ DM is probably not ever going to really check your spg on the way out of the water, unless you give them a reason to do so.

Can't tell you how many times I listed "Jesus" as my buddy for a dive and just went solo. They were happy and I was telling the truth, sorta..kinda like shutting down a manifold..:D
 
You may have missed it but I mentioned shutting down the crossover/isolaotr in my orignal post.

Mike D

I don't dive doubles, but if you can simply shut down the isolator and save 500 psi, it is not worth getting in a pissing match over the rules. Plus, speaking from experience, the deck-hand/ DM is probably not ever going to really check your spg on the way out of the water, unless you give them a reason to do so.

Can't tell you how many times I listed "Jesus" as my buddy for a dive and just went solo. They were happy and I was telling the truth, sorta..kinda like shutting down a manifold..:D
 
Knowone missed anything but someone has
 
I wear doubles for recreational dives because it gives me more time in the rig. Time = familiarity. More opportunities to practice drills and procedures also. It helps condition the muscles for dealing with the extra bulk and weight. It improves my tech diving.

Diving doubles is the 'norm' for me. I don't need to adjust anything, or brush off the rust, when I do a tech dive... and when I do dive a single cylinder, it seems like a piece of cake.

There's also the issue of redundancy. 2 dive trip = 1 set of doubles or 2 singles. Only one of those options gives absolute redundancy.

Hey Devondiver,

Sorry, this post is a little OT:

I'll bet that you have to iterate this answer quite often. Don't worry, you are not the freak. And, I believe your answer is a good one and very smart. Time-in-rig could be the difference between life or death, if you are unfortunate and get in trouble while on a tech dive.

Most recreational divers believe the PADI no-decompression dive limits, and its reliance on buddy-diving for redundancy and added safety margin. The only real redundancy that a diver has is carried on his/her back or in his BC pockets. All dives are decompression dives. We are adults here. We don't need marketing techniques that falsely train people that NDL are not decompression dives. PADI needs divers to stay viable and some divers would not certify if they new they were performing decompression dives (there are two types of dives: decompression and staged decompression dives). Rec divers who don't have redundant systems on their back are rationalizers.

On guided dives I always have a 6 cf pony and on solo/unguided dives I use a 13 cf pony. I always have a small SMB, whistle, and beacon on guided dives. On unguided dives I use a 6 foot SMB, line reel, whistle, and larger beacon. A small knife and scissors are always with me. As a former open-ocean master mariner, redundant systems on the ocean is the key to survival. SOLAS gear is also essential.

My best buddy-diver is my wife. Too bad she has an SOB attitude (don't worry, we're in the same ocean buddy!!!).

I always use nitrox. I have never had to board the boat becuase of nitrogen loading issues. It is difficult to load-up on nitrogen using nitrox while on a recreation dive profile with an 80 cf tank, a depth limit of 60 to 80 fsw, and a 50 minute dive time limit.

If I have a pony bottle that is full, why can't I run my main tank down to 300 psi while serially practicing the deployment of my SMB from 30' while under the boat? If the crew is told before-hand and agrees with the dive plan--what's wrong with 300 psi back aboard the boat and a full pony??

Rules based on orthodoxy are rediculous. Religion belongs in the church, not the dive boat.

markm
 
I'm a Tech Diver and I'm Ok
I sleep all night and I dive all day!
I wear Jet fins
A big can light
Dive thirds and wear a bra!
I wish I was a girlie
just like my dear Papa!
(To the tune of Monty Python's "I'm a Lumber Jack") [/humor]

I think the point that was being made... a tech diver, any tech diver, will come back with far more than 500 psi IF they are following even the most simple guidelines. Like all disciplines, the rule of thirds has a number of caveats and mods that will limit the amount of air you use before you turn your dive. Lengthy decompression is just one of those considerations. I think another discussion about the "real" rule of thirds is appropriate, but not here.

Also, if you are on a mixed dive boat with with single and double tank divers, the captain and crew have their hands full. The last thing they need is to be challenged openly about their policies. This is especially true if the captain doesn't know what to expect of you as a diver.

Hey NetDoc,

You make some good points; however, the OP was not tech diving. He was rec diving while wearing doubles equiped with an isolator. Orthodoxy can be a problem.

I have to admit that subconciously I may be siding with the OP because of my experience with dive-boat rules. The rules are made for the lowest common denominaotor. However, I am not the lowest common denominator on the boat (in the water, an argument can be made that I am the lowest cd, but courts have ruled that I am a responsible individual on all boats (not ships), whether I am a crewmember or not).

You see, I have documented, as captain, about 350,000 nautical miles on the water with the Coast Guard. I am always a little worried that a dive-boat captain may make a mistake that will put me in jail, while at the same time forcing me to follow rediculous rules.

I am always respectful to the crew of dive-boats while being fully prepared to perform my legal duty to give the captain my opinion that imminent danger is ahead. By case law, I can't sit by and watch people get hurt.

My viewpoint is probably tainted on this issue, but I will defend the OP's philosophical argument as I think all orthodoxies should be scrutinized.

markm
 
There were a number of coments about technical divers/rule of 3rds etc, & yes there were two teams of technical certified divers
including myself, but I just want to clarify there were no technical dives.
This was just a easy weekend dive charter while I was trying out a new stobe arm (that I broke, but that's another story)
All dives were within NDL, sport diving non-overhead environment rules.
I (& my buddy) add a 1 minute (deep) stop at 1/2 max depth, along with the usual 3 minute safety stop on all my dives over 60 ft.

Mike D
 

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