Diver missing today? 03/28/12

[MMM]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

This thread has meandered far from its very sad topic. Before putting any more fingers to the keyboard, please consider the subject and then ask yourself if what you are planning to type into the reply box is related or should go into a new or different thread so that it gets back/stays on topic. Since this isn't the accidents and incidents forum (where another related thread exists), I would also thank you for demonstrating sensitivity to the people involved in this tragedy.

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[Mossman]

The only case I recall where my dive was impacted was Devil's Throat. I usually go through last. On one dive, two divers elected to not go down the throat part. I had two options:
One example: The woman on the C53 dive last November. What if someone else had noticed that she was not going to enter the ship and decided to stay with her? Fact is that the other diver would have missed out on a dive that they purchased. It is possible that the woman would be alive today (barring a medical issue). Sounds like a good trade-off to me.

There's a big difference between skirting a swim-thru or foregoing wreck penetration and aborting a dive early. I'd have no problem making the first two compromises, though I would take it up with the DM back on the boat as to why a diver was left alone. And if it were a clearly dangerous scenario, such as an unbuddied diver making a panicky ascent without communicating such to the DM, then yes, I would assist the diver or at least keep a good eye on him or her until I saw a boat approach. But a buddy pair making a measured ascent to the surface, or even a solo that seems in control, I figure they know what they're doing and I'll continue on with my dive.

This would be a good topic for its own thread. I participated in a thread about a situation related to a situation in the Philippines in which a diver was on a dive that was much beyond his ability. I was very surprised by the breadth of opinions. Some believed that the responsibility lay directly with the diver, meaning that a relatively inexperienced diver should be able to make a realistic appraisal of his ore her ability and also know the relative difficulty of a site he or she has never visited. I did not concur.

I agree that there should be some consistent objective means of gauging dive site difficulty. Many dive ops and guidebooks classify sites all over the world as easy, intermediate, or advanced, but there's not much uniformity to those classifications. Lonely Planet has a rating system for its "Diving and Snorkeling" series, but I feel it's arbitrary. For instance, Advanced is described as "advanced certification; has been diving for more than two years; logged over 100 dives; has been diving in similar waters and conditions within the last six months." But that's redundant. You can't dive an Advanced dive unless you've done a similar Advanced dive within the last six months? The 100 dives is more relevant, but not a guarantee of surviving a truly advanced dive if the 100 dives were done in more basic conditions, and we all know what value the "advanced certification" has.

Dive ops shouldn't take unqualified divers on dives, but they don't always know the diver's qualifications. Divers can puff up their dive histories and claim they're ready for dives which they truly have no business doing. And plenty of dive ops minimize the danger of their local diving because they don't want to interfere with their revenue (and, perhaps, because they're used to the local conditions and have lost perspective). After experiencing some truly scary dives in Cozumel, I'm convinced it's not a place for beginners because you simply never know when la mierda will hit the fan and beginners often aren't capable of recognizing the danger and taking steps to avoid it. Strong currents with the chance of down currents, deep "bottomless" walls, swim-throughs, and lots of boat traffic, I'm honestly amazed at how Cozumel is so often pushed as a great place to dive right after getting open-water certification. But I'd imagine revenue would slip a bit if 100 dives and advanced certification were required in order to dive the island. Money trumps safety and common sense. Cozumel will continue to be popular with newbies and newbies will continue go missing.

Isn't that just being a decent human being, no matter the activity? If I was in Wet Wendy's and Moss tripped over his bar stool and took a header, I would stop and allow my delicious frozen cilantro and pineapple margarita to melt while I checked him and possible injuries and helped him up. Do I want to let my delicious margarita melt? No, but it would be the decent thing to do. I guess I could pick a bar with hard core drinkers to minimize the chance of needing to help, but the principle still applies.

Bad example. I have a very hard head and am a very self-sufficient drinker. Also I wouldn't be drinking in Wet Wendy's unless they can make a normal margarita, on the rocks!

But if you did somehow come to my rescue, causing your drink to melt, I'd happily buy you three to make up for it. On the other hand, I could see a diver you just assisted to the surface, likely saving his life, turn around to you and tell you to F-off. Forget about getting reimbursed for your missed dive. It pays off much better to be a good samaritan in a bar than underwater.

 

[flots am]

How many cruise ship passengers are mountaineering and back country skiing on their excursions, even somewhere more appropriate like Alaska? You're comparing apples to string beans.

Sure, I take the risk that my day of diving might be cut short by an accident. That's one thing. But that's a far cry from volunteering to accompany to the surface every newbie that aborts a dive.

I dive on cruise ships every year, and if I see a diver in distress me and my buddy will be right there to help.

A diver unexpectedly surfacing can be "just fine" or only moments away from panic and a quick death. Going up to make sure everything is OK and making sure the diver gets back on the boat or re-joins his buddy is worth a cut-short dive any day of the week.

flots.

 

[Mike]

I'm honestly amazed at how Cozumel is so often pushed as a great place to dive right after getting open-water certification. But I'd imagine revenue would slip a bit if 100 dives and advanced certification were required in order to dive the island. Money trumps safety and common sense. Cozumel will continue to be popular with newbies and newbies will continue go missing.

Very very true. With the common two tank morning dive profile of deep dive first to 80 feet or more followed by 2nd dive to 60 ft or so, it's a profile that puts a newbie right into the thick of it on their first dive.

Dive ops with a policy of keeping newbie divers on afternoon dives which are usually very tame, would be a great step in the way of safety. We all know however the half dozen reasons why this probably won't be happening anytime soon.

 

[cvchief]

As the originator of the thread, I would be great if MMM or someone wanted to move a lot of this into a thread called "You, your buddy, your DM and your group, who should do what?" I think the discussion is educational and perhaps the discussion with all its meandering might do us all some good and help us dive 'safer'. I think that might serve to bring something of value out of this tragedy.

 

[Sorrows]

Good call, chief. God, this is horrible, an awful loss and terrible waste. Prayers to the family, of course, but I agree with Chief that his proposed topic could produce some good out of this tragedy. Where should I look for it, please?

Edited to add: I think the proposed thread "You, your buddy, your DM and your group, who should do what?" should be Coz-specific; as it is a diving mecca that can be a "perfect storm" for this kind of tragedy--currents and depth issues, drift diving, newbie divers mixed with the more experienced, cruise ship passengers, DMs who have worry about not pissing off their customers AND keeping everybody safe, etc. etc.

 

[DandyDon]

As the originator of the thread, I would be great if MMM or someone wanted to move a lot of this into a thread called "You, your buddy, your DM and your group, who should do what?" I think the discussion is educational and perhaps the discussion with all its meandering might do us all some good and help us dive 'safer'. I think that might serve to bring something of value out of this tragedy.

H! A little late for that. Over 200 posts, most off topic.

 

[cvchief]

H! A little late for that. Over 200 posts, most off topic.

As I started the topic, DD, my intention was find out what happened and discuss that... Maybe some of that topic is A&I, but that was my topic....

 

[Brules]

Amen, too much general discussion without regard to the true nature of the loss. Sad.

 

[Splitlip]

Let's see, at the discount an operator gets, it might cost $100 to outfit a 6-pack boat with enough spare SMBs to outfit every diver who might not come equipped with one. Kept on board and rarely needed, they would last for years. Maybe it's because I am not a retailer, but I just find it hard to believe that an investment like that would force an operator into bankruptcy. If they were to charge a $1 rental fee, I think they would pay for the whole lot in no time without driving customers away with such an exorbitant increase in costs. If they require them and offer them for sale as an option, the profits from just a couple such sales would take care of the overhead for the rentals.

The operator I use in Cozumel requires a computer, and they have expensive parkas on board to keep guests warm. The last time I checked, they were still in business.

As for knowing how to deploy one, if you are on the surface, it is pretty darn simple. It only becomes problematic if you feel a need to deploy it at depth with a spool or reel.

When I read tigerman's post earlier, I thought of the demonstrations flight attendants give in the donning and inflation of life vests. Inflating any number of SMBs at the surface is going to be much easier.

Jupiter dive center requires one on every dive. Helps a lot when looking for a missing diver. Even the cheap sausages are better than empty hand.
Most of the regulars carry larger DSMBs with spools and reels.