Yes, Devils Throat, as easy at it seems is quite advanced, you can hit 130+ easily if you pop out and hit the shelf to look over the drop off......that is seriously deep on air and getting into NARC zone......same with the walls, a diver can VERY easily drop below 90' as with no bottom there is no visual reference for how deep you really are, and with new/really inexperienced divers, they can drop deep, quickly and never know it.
One of them could have easily had an issue, gotten narc'd and started the plunge in a matter of seconds with nothing to be done.
So yeah, Coz is advanced, compared to FL where there are no walls that drop off to 1500' straight down for miles and miles......
So technically speaking, yes, it is advanced. Quite......and yet shops/dm's take old people, fat people, kids, new divers to 60-120' with not a thought in the world.
So you would say it is all about the possibility of depth? In 'not advanced' areas there is always a hard bottom at 130 feet or so? Aren't you just as screwed at 250 feet as 300 or 500? My point being does 1500 feet matter?
You've less than 200 dives, a good many of which in Coz. Perhaps be thankful, indeed grateful, that you remain unsure as to whether to call the diving you've been doing in Coz "advanced." I've probably close to 600 dives under my belt. I've dove one week in Coz. I'd call it "advanced." And I encountered no serious issues during that week (intense down wellings, etc.), other than swift currents on every dive. These currents were enough for me to deem Coz diving "advanced" diving.
So for you it is the current? I sort of always looked at it like the weather. Everyone talks about it, but no one does anything about it. Seriously, though it goes and you go with it. In faster current, the DM parks the leaders behind a coral head in the lee of the current and shortly the group is tight again. I mean I guess that is more advanced than some dunk down, swim around and come back up in the same spot. My later check out dives were on the east side of Antigua. It was surgey I guess. Getting back on the boat was timing the ladder, it came down, grab it and a second later you were out of the water. Now that was hard.
Beginner divers may inadvertently end up too deep on a wall dive, possibly getting themselves into a mandatory deco situation. Or they may get claustrophic going through a swim-through and panic. Sometimes currents exceed one's ability to swim against them, which can give divers a feeling of being out of control. And then there are the fabled downcurrents.
That kinda says the problem is really training doesn't train you? If you are new you are still expected to do all those things you were told not to do? Most of the problems I have watched seem to be comfort issues, like:
1. Not enough weight;
2. my mask leaks;
3. I cant get down.
4. I can't clear my ears.
Most of these divers seem to relax and then things are fine. Is it just me or is most of the challenge in one's own head?
I don't think Cozumel is an 'advanced' diving destination. You missed or over-looked the other half of my post, the part about taking a mixed boat to an easy dive site and the experienced divers being bored.
I do think the great number of dive sites available in Cozumel which typically divide up into two distinct flavors, either the deeper wall dives or the shallower coral gardens has created the typical two tank morning dive profile of a deep wall dive followed by a shallower dive, evolved from the dive ops wanting to take advantage of the two types of sites in two tanks. It's became the 'signature' of Cozumel diving. That can create a somewhat more challenging scenario to a new diver. Also there is a great variety of dive ops and dive masters who maybe because it's Mexico get a bit loose with safety and take divers with less experience along with more experienced divers to sites that are deeper then the newbies should be.
How much diving do you have to do to go to 60-70 feet? For me, from the begining it was the first 40 feet getting my ears straight and in the 'groove'. 40 to 70 didn't seem that different. Other than getting to surface in a hurry, (which means bad stuff is happening anyway) what is the difference but numbers on a console?
I've only made one trip to Coz, but it was a nine day trip. I came away shaking my head and wondering why people recommend that place for new divers. Yes, there were relatively benign dives -- and they were among my favorites! Night diving on Paradise Reef was as good as it gets. But the deep drift dives presented challenges our group was well-prepared to face -- but I think the person with the fewest dives in the whole group had about 500, and the rest of us all had some kind of tech cert.
First dives on Coz are deep, and not all tanks are large. Currents can be strong enough to be a real obstacle to keeping a team together. EVERYONE who dives there should have an SMB and know how to deploy it, IMO. (The recent accident confirms this.)
Nobody should ever, IMO, do a dive where they expect the DM to do anything but indicate the desired course and point out cryptic critters. If you need the DM for anything more, you shouldn't be doing the dive except as a training exercise.
Two things this brings to my mind. In a strong current, the group can get a little strung out, but that train is going in one direction. I could never wonder to far off because of the current. Now that I don't get the 'close' eye of the DM like when I was new, sometimes the missus and I lollygag and the group gets ahead while we are taking pics. If riding the reef "low and slow" put us behind, we just come up a little where the current is faster and catch up.
I don't disagree that everyone should have a SMB. I do disagree that the recent accidents confirms it. I *think* all we know is the diver started for the surface. I don't think we know if she surface or if she did, if she remained there. For all we know this could have been some sort of medical issue that caused it and condition had nothing to do with *causing* the loss.
As for the DM, I would say I think divers should be *prepared* to have a DM who is useless for their safety, but they should EXPECT a DM who puts their safety and care at the top of the list. I don't think a tour guide only DM is acceptable.
The fact that many of us agree that they're necessary in Cozumel is further argument that it's a generally advanced location.
Well, the definition of necessary comes into question. I have NEVER shot my bag. (Yes, of course I should practice it. Maybe next time?) That being said I have never seen the need. My DM shoots it and delivers divers to the boat as need. I did see another member of our group shoot hers last trip. She didn't NEED to, but she choose to do it on her own rather than let the DM do it. I take it that is the way her usual op does it since she was a rather experience diver. Through the capitan off a bit as he wasn't aware she was going to break the routine and didn't recognize her SMB.
So anyway, my point is you should have them, but you don't need to USE them.
I have to take issue with this generalization and I think other "old people" will too. A properly trained AOW diver should be able to handle an emergency the proper way. It has nothing to do with age, body mass or the number of dives. Some of the problem lies in the number of LDS's that generate poorly trained divers with just enough skills to get them certified to be able to sell them gear to make money. I would have to say that even my LDS has been guilty of this at times. And by the way, I am 59 yrs old.
I get the gear sales. I had a great instructor for the class and confined OW, but they did also talk me into the top of the line, just introduced, fins. Man they were expensive..... And 59 is old? I dove with good divers in their late 70s early 80s. Good diver under water. Does it take something away from the younger, fitter, more gung ho diving crowd's ego when old, fat people dive just fine?
CVCHIEF, give Grand Cayman or Little Cayman a go for some dives for comparison to Cozumel. I think you'd enjoy them.
For me it is all about the excitement of the drift diving in Cozumel (5 trips to Cozy). In short, I love Cozumel for the drift diving and feel it is more well suited for advanced/experienced divers.
Well someday I will try something else. maybe... You keep scarying me with all this talk of no current? So like how far do I gotta swim? Sounds like work..... I might be not young enough, fit enough or experience enough for that!
Seriously though for you current equals advanced? In the Caymans can you not pay attention and go deep enough to kill yourself? It just seems, with the exception of the rare downwellings, most of all the 'issues' that seem to make some think Cozumel is advanced diving is mostly about divers given the opportunity to do stuff they have been trained not to do and thereby put themselves in danger.
