Dive computers... SO many choices!

[scubadada]

....For me personally, I can't imagine what AI would provide that I want. However, as I mentioned in my post, if you like AI then you should definitely get an AI capable computer.

I want my calculated RMV for every dive. I get this when I download from my AI computer. I have my RMV for the last 800 dives. I'm not interested in capturing my start and end pressures and manually making the calculation. To each their own

 

[doctormike]

I want my calculated RMV for every dive. I get this when I download from my AI computer. I have my RMV for the last 800 dives. I'm not interested in capturing my start and end pressures and manually making the calculation. To each their own

Hence my use of the word "personally"...

 

[doctormike]

BTW, having all information in one place where and when you only have to look at one device for this information is so much better and more convenient.

That's arguable. Nothing is without a tradeoff. For example, you only have so much screen real estate, so if you put your tank pressure on the screen, you either need a bigger screen or smaller fonts.

There are some things you might need to refer to frequently during even a recreational dive (depth, runtime, NDL), and it's good to have those on your wrist. Tank pressure isn't something that I check that frequently (again, this comes with time and experience), so I would rather not have that piece of data taking up space on my wrist.

Obviously a personal preference, not saying that you are wrong, just that there are different ways of looking at it.

 

[scubadada]

It's not RGBM. It's PZ+, if I'm not mistaken. An algorithm that is too conservative for my personal tastes. I'd rather have an Oceanic Geo 2.0 which you can get for about the same price and which offers PZ+ and DSAT (which is what I prefer to use for recreational dives - it is the most liberal NDL algorithm I know of).

Stuart is correct, it's PZ+, a proprietary, tuned down version of Buhlmann ZHL16C. NDLs for both DSAT and PZ+ are included in the ScubaLab data I gave the link to in post #3 of this thread. PZ+ is middle of the road in the spectrum from conservative to liberal. Too conservative for me too.

 

[doctormike]

I think it's personal preference. I don't care what size computer you have. The thing that bugs me is when people insinuate (not saying you, specifically) that anyone who says they want something smaller or thinner than a Petrel or Perdix is crazy/dumb/an ignorant newb/foolish/etc.. Why wouldn't anyone want the smallest, thinnest computer they could get that meet's all their other requirements?

Agree. Good to have young eyes!

 

[doctormike]

Any computer that has a built-in compass (and I have one and had a Petrel 2, which did) has to not show other data in order to show the compass.

That's actually not true. The Petrel 2 lets you customize what's in the center row, and one of the options for one of the three data spaces is a little compass, which is easy to use. So you don't need to have it switched into "compass mode" just to use the compass, you can have the heading there and still have lots of other data.

 

[scubadada]

Hence my use of the word "personally"...

And I used, "to each their own", simply different view points.

 

[Diving Dubai]

++1 to what @stuartv said above, except for the bit about the Suunto computers, I have used Suunto's since the 90's and have no problem with their so called "conservatism" at all. We use them in our school because they are reliable. I have many models of Suunto's console (with AI) and wrist (hoseless AI) and no issues with AI reliability at all. This is a matter of opinion, taste and priorities.

I completely agree. Every livaboard or commercial dive centre I've been too has Suuntos. Given they get used for 30+ dives a week and don't get treated gently by customers (and the customers can understand them) that must be a good recommendation

While my Eon is more liberal (if I choose to set it that way) I've never had my diving shortened on repetative dives due to NDL times on my computer or another. I may have more NDL time depending on my settings. When club diving my Eon doesn't differ that much from my buddy with his OSTC.

@stuartv and I disagree about liberal conservatism, (And I think we've reached a point where we agree to disagree)

It's okay if you understand the implications and have knowledge to make choices, but unfortunately too many people just decide that liberal is a selling point and must be much better. I'm even of the opinion that a good many people choose a GF setting because that's what they're read about someone else using on the internet, or their best mate uses that setting.

Liberal is good for those who are prepared to learn and gain the knowledge of why. That's not the majority though

 

[doctormike]

It's okay if you understand the implications and have knowledge to make choices, but unfortunately too many people just decide that liberal is a selling point and must be much better. I'm even of the opinion that a good many people choose a GF setting because that's what they're read about someone else using on the internet, or their best mate uses that setting.

Liberal is good for those who are prepared to learn and gain the knowledge of why. That's not the majority though

Exactly. I think that a lot of people who buy computers because they have liberal algorithms actually think that they are somehow affecting their decompression stress with a magic bracelet!

 

[Diver0001]

She said right off the bat no tech, ever. So, not sure where the comment about advanced diving and RGBM and VPM are coming from.

It's not only about NEED. Nobody NEEDS AI. But, for some people (me, for example), they want it and they deem it to be worth what it costs. I didn't NEED a computer that is smaller than a Petrel, either. But, I wanted one and I deemed that the cost to replace my Petrel 2 with a SeaBear H3 was worth it, to me. I am very happy with my rec computer that has AI and very happy with my H3. No regrets at all on either purchase.

Do not discount getting what you WANT just because you don't NEED it.

This is true; however, I'm trying to make her aware that the basis of a computer is the algorithm, not the packaging. I do believe that the discussion of RGBM versus not RGBM could be relevant to recreational diving in certain circumstances. Obviously, RGBM starts to break more once you get well over the NDL's but the bias it shows to over-load slow tissues during ascent could, at least in theory, become an issue for multi-day multi-dive vacations as well.

I don't have any evidence to support that in the context of recreational diving because it hasn't been tested. The bias, however, has been demonstrated and is relevant to the algorithm as a whole. I suspect that manufacturers like Mares maintain shorter NDL's on their RGBM computers as a layer of safety because they are aware of these issues with the algorithm.

I didn't want to just come out and say it, but pretty much nobody in the technical community is betting on RGBM anymore, so I think recreational divers should probably become informed about that.

Also, a few posts later I did mention that should could organise her thinking by making a list of "must have", "could have" and "won't have" features in order to help her boil down the list a bit. It wasn't in the post you quoted so I suppose you could have missed it.

R..