$1000 OW course of the future

[Ceberon]

awap once bubbled...
And divers are forced to form not-for-profit clubs. All necessary training (may not require c-cards), gas, and equipment service is provided by the club. Equipment can be purchased directly from the manufacturer (a tank valve will be item K in their catelogue).

That should work pretty well. Except you would probably need to charge people for air fills (especially nitrox/trimix) since it's pretty expensive to run a fill station. You most likely also would need to pay the people to fix the equipment service, since with any amount of membership they would quickly become overloaded.

Oh, and most likely if you had a large membership you would need to start charging for training, simply so that it's not too much of a drain on the divers who would rather be out fun diving, than dragging through a new group of non-divers.

Well shucks, looks like we just made a new LDS, except without profit and without gear sales

 

[BIGSAGE136]

being mandatory. Duck hunters don't get caught in this.

 

[redacted]

Ceberon once bubbled...



Well shucks, looks like we just made a new LDS, except without profit and without gear sales

I'm sure there would and should be costs. But how many instructors and dive masters today are doing it for the profit? Folks who enjoy scuba will continue to support their activitys. I may be wrong, but I believe recreational scuba divers came before the LDS's.

 

[diverbrian]

LDS were set up initially by people attempting to set up a safe training evironment so that people had the training to go with the gear that they were buying anyways. There were far more fatalities in diving before LDS's were requiring certifications to sell dive gear.

The safety of the modern diver is still better (even with the reduced training that we all agree could stand improvement) than it was when a diver would buy a tank with a J-Valve and attempt to penetrate a wreck or go into a cave without an SPG because nobody showed them "rules" for that kind of diving.

I will miss the divers staffing the store that help new divers start their careers as the staff of my LDS helped me do. Now, that I know more things, maybe I would manage things differently, but I doubt it. The staff is still more experienced than myself and I love getting their advice (even if I now know enough to have my own beliefs, which I didn't know a year ago). Even though I sometimes disregard it, the sometimes quirky owner of our LDS has been right with 95 percent of the advice that he has given me. So, let's enjoy the person to person contact with a real diver who adapts his gear recommendations (and accordingly, his dive training) to the individual diver and doesn't try to force the same model on every diver who comes into the shop.

 

[Genesis]

have owners that I don't think have actually been wet in salt water in quite some time. Perhaps years.

Their instructors might have, but not the owners/operators/givers-of-advice.

 

[Diversauras]

Brian, I kind of agree, it may be that the original LDS intent was to improve dive safety, and today without the LDS, most people would not know where to go to get started diving. But since the early days though I think that some, and certaily not all, dive shops have become businesses first and customers second...or last. Some have lost their focus.

I think instructors should be credited as valuable part of the chain of events that (may some day) leads to a beginner becoming a qualified diver, but here too, and those instructors among us know this to be true, instructing has also become a business first for some, and the students are taking a back seat in the priority list. To many it is just how they pay for their diving, and IMO I don't think this is the best motivation.

I started this a tounge-in-cheek idea to see where it went, but in some ways it may have real merit.

Maybe by making instruction too available and too cheap, the wrong group has been, and continues to be attracted to the sport. Maybe it needs to be harder to get started so that those not willing to commit time and money don't see it as a fun kind of thing. Once the fluff clientelle goes away there won't be any gravy left, the LDS will become an endangered species and the only common LDS will be destination shops. Instructor numbers will dwindle and equalibrium will again be achieved, Darwiniasm proved...

I guess that I will always dive, no matter the cost of equipment or gas or boat trips. Whining about 10 dollar this or 50 dollar that is silly. My first set of gear was 500% of my mont'hs pay of $1.00 per hour in the garage on the town square. Today if it came down to my dive gear or my wife I would bid her fond adieu and hope she didn't have too many hard feelings, and JFTR she already knows this.

I support the LDS system as it is today, but I know enough to not get taken in by some slick yet unknowledgable inexperienced sales person. Totally unrelated to the first line in this paragraph, I feel for Mike F and the demise of his shop, I too failed at a business before returning to the womb of big business. After I retire though, when beer and rent are all that matter, come see me in Dahab, look for the signs to "Diversauras' Dive Dive", or something like that, but don't be surprised when you see the other sign on the flap, the one that says "Gone Diving", because that is all that it is about.

 

[budgy]

I belong to a club with several thousand members, all branches have equipment they lend at ultra low rental and many have compressors for free or low cost fills. We provide training through to instructor level for little more than annual membership fees.
When I walk around the LDS with the wants and not enough money I start to get a classic case of sour grapes.
I look at a large plastic reel with a well known brand name on the side and notice it has a retail price higher than a quality fishing reel. When I consider that the brand names on many goods are not the names of the factory. I start to wonder how much suits, regs and other equipment really cost from places like the Pacific-rim. I am sure its way past the time we ran a not-for-profit co-operative, contracting out directly for the equipment our members need.

 

[MikeFerrara]

awap once bubbled...
And divers are forced to form not-for-profit clubs. All necessary training (may not require c-cards), gas, and equipment service is provided by the club. Equipment can be purchased directly from the manufacturer (a tank valve will be item K in their catelogue).

Good idea. We could also form auto clubs to get not-for-profit cars and service, appliance clubs so no one makes a profit when we nee a new wash machine or toaster. How about a medical club. We could get doctors to work just for the love of the thing and medical costs would go way down. All you'd have to do is have the club pay for the doctors education and maintain them like pets afterwqrds.

 

[JimC]

They exist is most major cities.

We could also form auto clubs to get not-for-profit cars and service

Never personaly seen this one

appliance clubs so no one makes a profit when we nee a new wash machine or toaster.

Canadian Health Care, the club fees are tax dollars, and most of our Doctors basicaly work for free when you compare to the income they could make in the US.

How about a medical club. We could get doctors to work just for the love of the thing and medical costs would go way down.

Same tax dollars masivly subsidize medical education. Not quite free, but way way cheap.

All you'd have to do is have the club pay for the doctors education and maintain them like pets afterwqrds.

 

[budgy]

Club membership includes 3rd party insurance and a bi-monthly magazine. Its around $80 per annum.
Branch membership varies but averages an additional $80.
Branch membership benefits variey but often include free pool use, cylinder fills and free or low cost equipment hire.
Basic scuba training is to a certification level equivalent of rescue diver is free.
Master diver training equivalent is also free.
Instructor level training is aprox $100 extra
Access to training is often more difficult as its done by unpaid volunteers.
I wonder if we bought direct from the 3rd world factories that are making the stuff with big brand logos wether we could be saving the same kind of money on our kit.