$2k HID lights - what is so magical about them?

[scubafanatic]

Let me just correct a few things.
HID bulbs are no where near $200 a pop, and the new bright LEDs are not cheap either.
You can dim HID bulbs, no one in the dive industry can get a ballast that will do that, yet
I don't cycle my light, however, again, you can cycle an HID. But again the dive industry is not using ballasts that can "hot strike" the bulbs. But it can be done.

If HID is dead why are automotive companies still progressing with them?

...is there any practical difference to the diving consumer between a theoretical product that COULD exist but doesn't and a product that doesn't exist because it cannot be created ? Either way, NONE of the dive light manufacturers have introduced a 'dimmable/hot-strikeable' HID light for WHATEVER reason....who cares, it's NOT available from HIDs and IS available from LEDs.

 

[TSandM]

Why do I want to dim my light? If I'm looking at an animal that I don't want to fry, I just put a few fingers in front of the bulb.

As far as hot striking goes, I can turn my light right back on if I knock the switch. Even if the battery is dying and the light goes out, I can generally restrike it once or twice, until the bulb in my HEAD goes on and says, "Your battery's dead, numbskull."

LEDs make a lot of sense in a lot of ways, but they don't put out the same intensity of light yet, and they aren't as focused yet, and I'll keep my HIDs for cave diving for the foreseeable future. I have had one bulb fail on me in four years, and I don't think that's excessive.

 

[Gombessa]

I fully expect that for all but the most specialized/technical dive applications, canisters and HIDs will go away within five years. LED efficiency is on the rise, and we're seeing some movement in battery energy density improvements...it's only a matter of time.

However, right now, in the context of "$2k lights" the lines have not yet crossed. HID's higher efficiency is superior, and IMO will remain superior as required lumen output increases. Right now, if I was spending <$1k on a new light, I'd be looking long and hard at the LED options. The scale on that price point will continue to creep up year after year. I'd bet that we'll see a production LED that will truly outshine a 21w HID in the next couple of years, but 35-50watt? HMI? Those novelties will probably remain the province of HID for some time.

 

[Teamcasa]

I'm not saying HID is dead - yet. I'm just saying LED will quickly eclipse HID as the lamp of choice soon. BTW, if I was going cave diving tomorrow, I'd grab my HID setup.

The other area is batteries. The technology is not there yet but Lithium Ions need to go away as they are a horrible polluter (the manufacturing and disposal of) and very expensive. Unfortunately, newer, more efficient batteries are still a few years off.

 

[scubafanatic]

LEDs make a lot of sense in a lot of ways, but they don't put out the same intensity of light yet, and they aren't as focused yet, and I'll keep my HIDs for cave diving for the foreseeable future. I have had one bulb fail on me in four years, and I don't think that's excessive.

...no worries, as I mentioned, for now, for diving biologically 'dead' zones (caves/wrecks) being able to boil water with a mega horsepower HID can light is fine.

 

[scubafanatic]

Why do I want to dim my light? If I'm looking at an animal that I don't want to fry, I just put a few fingers in front of the bulb.

.......it's just that I don't want to have to use 2 hands to maintain control over my light output.....I want to have the flexibility to dial in a light output tailored to the circumstances......also, LED tend to have a softer, more uniform beam...HID's tend to have a way too intense hot central beam that degrades rapidly off center.....LEDs have a broad, uniform beam without that super high intensity central hotspot...the hotspot is too bright for reef use, and the beam area once off center weakens rapidly...also, HID's have a lot of output in the blue/UW spectrum, LEDs have a warmer, more natural quality of light.....I just think they're way more suitable for 'biology' dives.

 

[Gombessa]

Neither of these are inherent limitations in the technology.

.......it's just that I don't want to have to use 2 hands to maintain control over my light output.....I want to have the flexibility to dial in a light output tailored to the circumstances......also, LED tend to have a softer, more uniform beam...HID's tend to have a way too intense hot central beam that degrades rapidly off center.....LEDs have a broad, uniform beam without that super high intensity central hotspot...the hotspot is too bright for reef use, and the beam area once off center weakens rapidly...

That's just the method chosen by a light manufacturer to focus the beam. HIDs tend to have an intense hotspot because they CAN (whereas LEDs, with a larger light emitting area, cannot), so they're used more when spot focus is desired. Adjustable focus lightheads and different reflectors (see the uniform output from an HID video light?) can give HIDs more spill and less throw, but the opposite isn't always available to LEDs.

also, HID's have a lot of output in the blue/UW spectrum, LEDs have a warmer, more natural quality of light.....I just think they're way more suitable for 'biology' dives.

Again, color temperature isn't a given. HIDs and LEDs are both capable of broad spectrum output. Blue or green tinted light penetrates farther in water, and since tight-focus throw is important to many HID applications, you see lots of 6000-7000K HID setups. But most HIDs actually output more lumens per watt at lower, warmer color temperatures, and are fully capable of producing warmer, whiter 4000K light as well.

 

[keithdiver]

You can get your self a great light from Halcyon for about 1200$ . Lifetime warr. great support, and a competent staff that knows it's product. The light is a 21 watt HID. call Bev at IVS and see what she can do for you. 215-256-6000. Good luck

 

[HenrikBP]

A few links to light "quality" info:

Cool White vs Neutral white - CandlePowerForums

Molecular Expressions: Science, Optics, and You: Light and Color - Color Temperature

Kruithof curve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Might explain *some* of the reasons (other than focus) why LED still has a way to go before making HID obsolete.

Henrik

 

[RJP]

I fully expect that for all but the most specialized/technical dive applications, canisters and HIDs will go away within five years.

What's going to replace a canister light - irrespective of what kind of bulb?