40m without deep specialty?

[Thalassamania]

The dive, if done as you describe it, should pose no problems; but advertising (even just implying) that it meets the specifications of the U.S. Navy tables is not being truthful, it does not.

 

[beester]

I still have all basic divers do a 50' CESA and Advanced from 100'. How else can an instructor prepare a diver properly without getting his students to attempt this?

The CESA is simulated in-that the diver has a functioning regulator in the mouth. They can breathe at any time and it's not a pass or fail item. It sure gives the diver an up-close and personal appreciation for depth.

I certainly don't think that it's knife edge dangerous. It just takes a little practice. If you think about it, free divers dive to 200'+ what's difficult of only going one way with seven full lungs full of air?

Well to be honest... it IS dangerous. Doing this specific CESA (not really a CESA since they stop at 30 feet (10m)), was part of a **** curicullum.

The people doing this would be prepared. Most of them would be 300+ dives people with at least 50 dives below 100 feet. (part of the qualification). However doing this kind of stuff in low vis (we're talking on average between 5 and 15 feet at most), cold water, current situation is dangerous.

You also have to balance between what someone learns from this vs what the risk is to learn it. In the end they did have to many injuries (and we're talking barotrauma not deco) to keep on doing it that way.

They'll still do test from 40m (rescues etc) but no longer CESA ascents.

 

[DCBC]

Well to be honest... it IS dangerous. ... However doing this kind of stuff in low vis (we're talking on average between 5 and 15 feet at most), cold water, current situation is dangerous.

It depends upon how it's taught. The Navy has been teaching this for over 50 years without incident. This is where I was originally taught "free ascent." I've personally taught this for the last 37 years without incident (in-fact before before it was in the **** training manual). Who said anything about dangerous current?

There is nothing dangerous about free ascent training if it's done properly. The problem is that in many training courses there is not enough time for a student to do many of the things that build confidence and improve his/her abilities. Many courses today only teach the diver to be escorted on a reef in warm shallow water. Not always was this the case.

 

[Thalassamania]

Free ascents have been taught in the science community since the early 1950s and continue to be taught today - without any incidents of any sort, I submit that if the experience in the recreational community is any different it has to do with the poor skill level and adaptation of the students.

 

[Tigerman]

....
There is nothing dangerous about free ascent training if it's done properly. The problem is that in many training courses there is not enough time for a student to do many of the things that build confidence and improve his/her abilities. Many courses today only teach the diver to be escorted on a reef in warm shallow water. Not always was this the case.

I suspect that problem to be much more distinct on resort locations than "random local diveshops". Thats not to say all resort lds take shortcuts though, but it wouldnt be surprising if the courses focus more on the things thats likely to encounter in the area near where the course is taken..

 

[DCBC]

...it wouldnt be surprising if the courses focus more on the things thats likely to encounter in the area near where the course is taken..

You would think that CESA would be one of them.

 

[Buzoferoz]

Nope-.... That is only the first dive of the DEEP course and is consider as a TRIAL dive, is guided recrational 100 ft max and is not a certificate to go beyond 100 ft, but still A TRIAL dive dont get confused that you get certified only in a one dive for deep dive. To my personal opinion you can tell the salt flavor 'till you taste it¡ if you want to go deep is a very diferent course and a very diferent equipment config.... yes is another course but it worth the extra time and efort also investment. Do you guys believe that medical doctors are ok only if they have frist aid course??

 

[WD8CDH]

I have been to over (below) 100m without PADI Deep Specialty and the PADI Police didn't come after me. I guess that is too deep for the PADI Police.

But I have been trained, have the experience and the equipment for those dives.

The point is, don't dive beyond your Training, Experience, Equipment, Conditions and your comfort level. Certification is just a piece of paper. The rest will keep you alive.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

DCBC-I'm curious, are you a PADI instructor? A CESA from 50' seems awfully sketchy for open water certs if that's what you're referring to with "basic divers"

As a point of reference on CESA and PADI:

I was PADI certified in 1976. Our entire class (a large class by today's standards) was required to CESA from 60'. Ascent rate was 60'/min. There was no, as in absolutely no problem with performing this skill (for those who made it this far in the course.... some were "failed" on swimming skills before reaching this point). No injuries that I know of (locally) for the several years of large classes who were required to perform this skill. I do not know if 60' was PADI's requirement at the time, or just our instructor's (ex-Navy diver). But he made sure we were well-prepared, and the skill is not difficult.

My kids completed PADI open water in 2007. CESA depth was about half of what we did in the 70's... but even my 11 year old had zero issues performing a CESA from about 30'.

I really think that beginning divers should KNOW that they can safely reach the surface from their recommended depth limit (60'). As others have said, CESA is just a tool that is hopefully never needed; but still a good tool to have.

Best wishes.

 

[DCBC]

I was PADI certified in 1976. ...I do not know if 60' was PADI's requirement at the time, or just our instructor's (ex-Navy diver).

PADI didn't have any free ascent requirement in 1976. You can thank your ex-Navy Instructor.