An uncomfortable situation, Your opinions please

[supergaijin]

As many other poster have said there is a sometimes blurry distinction between being overly protective towards divers and nonchalance. An experienced guide is a true professional in this respect and will also occasionally make mistakes.

Slates can make communication much easier, but you can really only properly communicate pre-dive and post dive after an incident involving confusion and potentially hurt feelings etc.

"POT" DMs (product of Thailand) are usually fairly useless at assessing the experience of guests as it usually exceeds their own.

Talking to divers is the key to avoiding most problems and increasing satisfaction. With experience you can read between the lines and learn a lot about the paying guest. This is why I really dislike having to switch groups or divers suddenly showing up- it throws the dynamic of the group in to the air. Language barriers also are a real hindrance to effectively communicating your personal style in planning/leading guided dives.

I personally don't like divers ascending earlier than the group as now there is an unknown factor. Safety stops (while usually not mandatory under PADI standards) are universally accepted as being a good thing. If a minimum 3 min safety stops becomes a 4 or 5 min safety stop, that only makes a good thing better.

 

[DevonDiver]

ANY DIVER CAN ABORT ANY DIVE - AT ANY TIME - FOR ANY REASON

Repeat until it becomes a mantra...

What we may 'like' or 'dislike' as dive pros has no reflection on what we should peer pressure our customers into accepting.

 

[Simon-]

It is very easy to bemoan the actions of a DM is a given situation. Sure, they have to try and cater for the whole group on the dive, but does that make the DM wrong in this case?

Have a look at the A&I board. There was a recent thread about a woman ascending before the group and not been seen since.

Plenty of people who have posted on this thread would be screaming about the DM if something like that had happened on this dive.

If you don't want a DM controlling your dive, don't dive with one. Surely an extra couple of minutes on a safety stop would not have been that much to tolerate

 

[fjpatrum]

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I think I'd have likely smacked the DM and kept swimming. Your dive is your dive and no one should ever yank you back down unless you are in the middle of a runaway ascent. Definitely would have had words after the dive.

I don't think you were out of line at all, the DM was. That said, what's with a weight pocket coming loose? Perhaps a better pre-dive gear inspection is in order?

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

---------- Post added April 11th, 2012 at 01:36 PM ----------


One of the small pacific islands so no issue with being sued etc.

Okay, because in some countries they are more worried about government regulations and loosing tourism than they are about lawsuits. As far as the reg goes he should have giving you the okay sign to see if you were okay, so he was wrong. But for the safety stop, from your post it looks like part of the dive plan was to group at the safety stop, and at the surface, so you should have stuck too the plan unless something was wrong.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

After reading the entire thread, here are the comments of a DM who leads certified divers on dives. The DM in the story posted was likely new or otherwise anxious. He did not learn enough about his divers and was not monitoring them very well. If he was, he would have noted the divers actions and not misinterpreted them. This sounds like one of those "follow me" DM's. I don't use that approach. I will lead the group, but for certain at the start of the dive I watch each member of the group to see how they look and act in the water. I think there is an observable difference between a problem and normal behavior. If I saw diver with a weight pocket out, I would approach and assist in replacement. It is not a good idea to just carry it around, though doing so is better than dropping it! As far as the safety stop goes, that is a matter of doing a good pre-dive briefing. If as DM I want all of us to surface together it is my job to make that clear before we enter the water. The same with a safety stop. While Jim says they are optional, if it is part of the dive plan, it should be made known. I like to believe I can spot competent divers and I know I can observe those who are following the dive profile. I also know some dives are "trail rides" for divers with limited experience, and some are conducted more loosely, with more experienced divers, and especially with divers I have seen in the water a time or two or more. I have never crowded or interfered with a diver's dive if they show competence and follow the profile. But I have tapped a diver on the shoulder and had him ascend a bit if they were below the max depth, and the same for divers who chase off after things for too great a distance, oblivious to where their buddy is or where the group is. If you want to be left alone, follow the dive plan, demonstrate competence in the water, and talk to me about your expectations and intentions before the dive. Do that, and we will all get along. I know there are some "mother hen" or "power trip" divemasters who have not yet gotten to the point of interaction, observation and communication I am talking about. Hopefully they will grow in the profession with time. I want the people I am with to enjoy their dive, and to be safe. That happens most ofter when everyone on the dive communicates, follows the profile and has a positive attitude.
DivemasterDennis

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

This is what can happen when you make someone a DM after only 60 or so dives ... they lack the real-world experience to assess and respond appropriately to conditions they've never been exposed to before.

Then put them in a place where they are doing the same few dives over and over again, and they never really get more experienced ... they just keep repeating the same experience they already have.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[BVickery]

This is what can happen when you make someone a DM after only 60 or so dives ... they lack the real-world experience to assess and respond appropriately to conditions they've never been exposed to before.

Then put them in a place where they are doing the same few dives over and over again, and they never really get more experienced ... they just keep repeating the same experience they already have.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

How do you know the DM only had 60 dives? I mean, we know nearly nothing about the DM yet are basing our assumptions on one side of the story. How do you know he didn't have hundreds of dives prior to becoming a DM?

Hell, being an experienced Diver and an Experienced DM to me are two different things.

 

[DevonDiver]

How do you know the DM only had 60 dives? I mean, we know nearly nothing about the DM yet are basing our assumptions on one side of the story. How do you know he didn't have hundreds of dives prior to becoming a DM?

Because most of those who made that deduction, including myself, have been in the situation as new DMs where supervisory decision making demanded the exercise of experience. Thus, we can identify where bad decisions were made due to a lack of such experience.

That said, it is still all hypothetical, because we only have one person's perspective of the events. However, the pattern does fit.

I wouldn't expect an experienced DM to drag someone back to depth on a safety stop.

What would change that perspective would be if it was actually a deco stop, if the divers had been very close to an NDL, or if the diver concerned had performed a rapid ascent during a prior portion of the dive.

Even then, I would make that situation clear to the diver concerned at the time, so they understood the reason for my actions and why they should maintain the stop etc.

I wouldn't expect an experienced DM to force a regulator into a diver's mouth.

What would change that perspective would be if the diver concerned was showing signs of panic, or otherwise struggling to relocate the regulator.

Even then, I would use my AAS, not the diver's... because experience has taught me that sometimes a diver might remove a regulator because of an air supply issue.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

How do you know the DM only had 60 dives? I mean, we know nearly nothing about the DM yet are basing our assumptions on one side of the story. How do you know he didn't have hundreds of dives prior to becoming a DM?

Please note that I said "can happen" ... not "did happen".

Making good decisions isn't something you learn in a class or a textbook. The responses described by the OP are classic ones that someone with limited experience would be likely to make.

Hell, being an experienced Diver and an Experienced DM to me are two different things.

I tend to agree ... but I'm curious if you'd explain what you perceive the differences to be, and how they would pertain to the situation that the OP described ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)