AOW vs GUE Fundamentals

[MXGratefulDiver]

I would argue that you should take the Fundamentals course and forget AOW (unless you have a very highly recommend instructor available). Part of what you will learn in th Fundamentals course is single tank diving in deeper water is not very smart. It will give you the tools to transition into a double tank setup to do 100' dives for up to 30 minuets. 77.5 cf (single AL80) with 2-4 cf consumed at a depth of 100' doesn't leave much time before needing to turn the dive with enough gas to get you and your buddy up to the surface safely in an emergency.

A GUE Fundamentals card will not be accepted in lieu of AOW on quite a lot of dive charters around the world that are taking you on a deeper dive ... nor should it, since GUE Fundamentals does not in any way train you for deep diving. The focus of Fundamentals is on proper trim, buoyancy, team skills, and gas management ... and while these certainly apply to deep diving, the course does not provide you any experience in diving below 70 feet.

Furthermore, most of the world has never heard of GUE ... show somebody in Raja Ampat or the Maldives that card and they're likely to hand it back and ask if you have one from a "recognized" agency. For that matter, you'll find those charters in many parts of the USA. More on that later ...

If you show up to the boat looking the part, your not going to be turned away. Heck, I show my OW card to most charter captains when diving with multiple stages and deco bottles.

Even on our local charters ... which tend to let people dive however they choose to ... if you show up with multiple stages and deco bottles you'd better be prepared to show some proof that you know how to use them. Most recreational charters don't want to see that stuff, since they have set time limits on a dive ... and don't want a couple of tech divers holding up the boat while everyone else sits and waits for them to finish their deco.

Bottom line. Make an informed choice and interview the person who you are considering taking a course with. Get their take on gas calculations (Min Gas, Rock Bottom, 1/2's, 1/3rds, all usable). These are important calculations that should be used on EVERY dive. Will your next instructor be able to cover these bases?

... some of us teach that stuff in AOW ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added February 23rd, 2015 at 07:04 AM ----------

I saw 2 guys on a morning boat trip out of Key Largo not get to dive because they didn't have AOW, just OW, and while the Captain was willing to take a look at their log books, they weren't packing those, either. Log books get mentioned on the forum fairly often, but I seldom see them aside from new divers.

Richard.

I keep a dive log on my laptop ... which I always have with me when I go on dive vacations. So far I've never had anyone ask to see it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added February 23rd, 2015 at 07:06 AM ----------

Yep. If you dive travel without an AOW or recognized equivalent and want to do "those" dives, you better bring your logbook and tap shoes. Otherwise you risk being left behind or you'll be required to hire a guide (which isn't necessarily a bad thing other than being "required" to). Either is a hassle I don't want after paying for an expensive dive trip. Rules of the road as they currently stand. You can always call ahead and work it out in advance, but if you have to change ops on the fly, you're right back where you started. Hassle.

On my last Indonesia trip ... to Raja Ampat ... my dive buddy couldn't find her c-cards when we got there (she had them, she just couldn't find them). The guy who runs the dive op didn't ask for her logbook ... he asked her to go for a dive with him on the house reef. His words ... "I'll know if you have the 900 dives you claim you do". When we came in he said "It's really nice to dive with people who know what they're doing" ... and we were good to go on pretty much any dive we wanted to ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added February 23rd, 2015 at 07:09 AM ----------

AOW vs. Fundies -- really they are two different classes with different goals and focus. While it is highly unlikely you won't get your money's worth (and then some) from Fundies, AOW, well you've all read the stories of the good and bad.

Is a Fundies card good for anything on a boat dive? Well, as I was getting ready to head out to Molokini (Maui) after having reserved a 32% Nitrox tank, I was asked for my Nitrox card and handed in my NAUI HeliTrox Diver card (Helium/Nitrox mix) and was told, "What's this?" and refused. I pulled out my Fundies card which said "Trained in... use of 32% Nitrox" and was good to go.

Maui's its own special case. I've related before my experience there with a dive shop that refused first my YMCA AOW card, then my NAUI Instructor card. When I asked the guy what he wanted he told me he would only accept certification from PADI. We laughed all the way across the street, where we signed up for the week with one of his competitors.

As for nitrox ... I've also told the story before of my experience in Bonaire. I had gone with hopes of doing the clipper ship dive, so rather than bringing along a nitrox card I brought my trimix card instead. When signing up for the week at Buddy Dive I wanted the nitrox package, and when handing in my paperwork handed the guy my NAUI Trimix II card. He handed it back to me and told me he'd need to see a Nitrox card. After staring incredulously at the idiot, I told him OK, just give me trimix ... and don't put any helium in it. He thought about that for a few seconds and started laughing ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added February 23rd, 2015 at 07:19 AM ----------

Bob, perhaps you meant to quote someone else's post. I didn't mention Halcyon or suggest that any brands of equipment might be required. I can assure you that the few things I changed prior to the Fundies course were to meet equipment requirements for the Fundamentals course.

No ... I quoted your post to point out that you don't necessarily need to borrow the gear from your GUE instructor ... keep in mind that quite a few GUE classes employ instructors who fly in from somewhere else, and only bring their own equipment with them. In places where such equipment makes sense, you'll often be able to borrow it from people who aren't even in the program. Backplates and hogarthian-style regs are commonplace in the PNW ... even among people who have never taken a GUE class. Furthermore, many of us have "backup" rigs that we loan out fairly regularly to out of town guests.

The Halcyon reference was in response to someone else ... the concept that GUE requires Halcyon equipment tends to show up fairly regularly in threads like this one, and I just threw that in there to clarify that it's a misconception ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

So I am trying to understand this ...

1) Lets say you go to Maldives or Komodo etc with any non-PADI agency C-card like SSI, SDI, NAUI, PSAI etc. Will you turned away exactly like UTD and GUE guys or would the above come under "PADI equivalents" in the world of recreational diving and be accepted?

2) How about technical diving community? Do the tech diving charters all over the world (Truk, Bikini, Scapa Flow) also shun the DIR crowd like the recreational community?

 

[tursiops]

So I am trying to understand this ...

1) Lets say you go to Maldives or Komodo etc with any non-PADI agency C-card like SSI, SDI, NAUI, PSAI etc. Will you turned away exactly like UTD and GUE guys or would the above come under "PADI equivalents" in the world of recreational diving and be accepted?

2) How about technical diving community? Do the tech diving charters all over the world (Truk, Bikini, Scapa Flow) also shun the DIR crowd like the recreational community?

1. Yes, but don't go too far down that list. There are a fair number of "agencies" that pretty much nobody has ever heard of.
2. I assume you are just having fun stirring the pot with this question, and it is not a serious question. If it is, try reasking without the shun reference, which is incorrect usage of the word.

 

[AdivingBel]

So I am trying to understand this ...

1) Lets say you go to Maldives or Komodo etc with any non-PADI agency C-card like SSI, SDI, NAUI, PSAI etc. Will you turned away exactly like UTD and GUE guys or would the above come under "PADI equivalents" in the world of recreational diving and be accepted?

2) How about technical diving community? Do the tech diving charters all over the world (Truk, Bikini, Scapa Flow) also shun the DIR crowd like the recreational community?

I would think any well known worldwide agency would probably do. Any other would probably do if you contact them in advance. You're just trying to avoid the "dumb blank stare" from the dive op.

#2) Shun...really...now you're just trolling, dude...

 

[Centrals]

So I am trying to understand this ...

1) Lets say you go to Maldives or Komodo etc with any non-PADI agency C-card like SSI, SDI, NAUI, PSAI etc. Will you turned away exactly like UTD and GUE guys or would the above come under "PADI equivalents" in the world of recreational diving and be accepted?

2) How about technical diving community? Do the tech diving charters all over the world (Truk, Bikini, Scapa Flow) also shun the DIR crowd like the recreational community?

Personal experience only.
1. My IANTD Technical Nitrox card has never been refused.
2. The technical diving community is a lot more knowledgeable than others.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

1. Yes, but don't go too far down that list. There are a fair number of "agencies" that pretty much nobody has ever heard of.
2. I assume you are just having fun stirring the pot with this question, and it is not a serious question. If it is, try reasking without the shun reference, which is incorrect usage of the word.

So basically, the global acceptability factor for GUE/UTD is the same as SDI, SSI and other non-PADIs. In that case, bringing a log book with you should grant you entry on most charters, resorts, liveaboards (unless you are the guy in Bob's Maui story in which case I would be hesitant to dive with the fellow anyways).

 

[scubadada]

So I am trying to understand this ...

1) Lets say you go to Maldives or Komodo etc with any non-PADI agency C-card like SSI, SDI, NAUI, PSAI etc. Will you turned away exactly like UTD and GUE guys or would the above come under "PADI equivalents" in the world of recreational diving and be accepted?

2) How about technical diving community? Do the tech diving charters all over the world (Truk, Bikini, Scapa Flow) also shun the DIR crowd like the recreational community?

Yes, both you and I would like to get to Bikini, I think my window likely closed unless things change

 

[tursiops]

So basically, the global acceptability factor for GUE/UTD is the same as SDI, SSI and other non-PADIs. In that case, bringing a log book with you should grant you entry on most charters, resorts, liveaboards (unless you are the guy in Bob's Maui story in which case I would be hesitant to dive with the fellow anyways).

No. It is the level of the training received and expressed on the card that is the critical element. Go back and read the thread. GUE Fundamentals is not the same level of training (not better or worse or higher or lower, just different) as (say) PADI AOW or SDI Advanced. If the charter/resort/liveaboard wants to know that you have some training to go beyond 60 ft, just showing a GUE Fundies card will not do that. Your log book might, but just showing you've dived to 100 ft and lived to tell about it is not the same as having gotten some training.

You clearly have some point to want to make and are perfectly willing to twist and ignore input to the contrary. Jeez.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

No. It is the level of the training received and expressed on the card that is the critical element. Go back and read the thread. GUE Fundamentals is not the same level of training (not better or worse or higher or lower, just different) as (say) PADI AOW or SDI Advanced. If the charter/resort/liveaboard wants to know that you have some training to go beyond 60 ft, just showing a GUE Fundies card will not do that. Your log book might, but just showing you've dived to 100 ft and lived to tell about it is not the same as having gotten some training.

You clearly have some point to want to make and are perfectly willing to twist and ignore input to the contrary. Jeez.

I understand. I am not referring to GUE Fundamentals but equivalent certification from these agencies like UTD Rec 2.

I have no point to make dude. Just asking a question. Chill.

 

[tursiops]

I understand. I am not referring to GUE Fundamentals but equivalent certification from these agencies like UTD Rec 2.

I have no point to make dude. Just asking a question. Chill.

OK, sorry. Your use of "shun" rang the wrong bells.

Recreational locations in the distant/obscure places have little experience with small-agency cards, and I'd put GUE and UTD as examples. Tech locations are more knowledgable.
Your logbook might help, but I doubt it. It is called a "certification card" for a reason; one can fake their log book much easier than faking a cert card. Best of all, many locations can check you on-line to see that you are real....but not for all agencies.