Appropriate to ask for a refund? Trip report from my first salt water dive!

[jboneng]

For those of you who use the metric system:
Does your computer give you the depth to tenths of a meter or whole meters?
When doing calculations do you use or require precision to tenths of a meter?

My computers (Suunto Zoop and Shearwater Petrel) gives the depth with a precision of tenths of a meter like "34.5"
When doing dive related calculations I just keep it simple and round up ( or dow, depending on what gives me a bit of safety margine) to nearest whole meter.

 

[Storker]

nevermind

 

[FinnMom]

.....

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

He didn't ask for a CREDIT, he asked for a refund. You've just changed the whole dynamic. Would you give him a refund on a regulator he bought, used, shows signs of use, and breaths hard? Many would offer a free adjustment, but would you refund him?

Changing the dynamic is a good creative solution. Refunds are bad, basically pure profit tossed out the window. Dive OP out money and overhead cost, customer still whining. Does not matter if it is just or deserved or required or not.

Swapping to a credit makes the customer feel they are ahead of the game and get them to STFU. Unless the dive boat sells out, the marginal cost for the free credit is almost nothing. A discount rather than a full credit hedges against that. This is why airlines are pretty quick to offer a credit voucher for $100 or $200 when problems arise and you bitch enough. They know it makes the whining customer satisfied, does not cost them cash flow and insures the next flight out will probably be back on their airline, as crappy as it is. If the customer is a one-shot wonder, then it cost you nothing. If they are a recurring customer, you retain them.

 

[FinnMom]

I learned a great deal about dealing with customers and employees from raising kids. One example is that when the answer is no, I try to always offer something else to which I am prepared to immediately say yes. Give it some genuine thought and frequently there are many things one person can offer that "cost" them much less than what they are worth to the recipient.

I don't think the customer was entitled to anything more than he received, nor that he should ask. BUT if I were the business owner and I were asked, I'd offer him something, even something of no monetary value like an invite to a club event, or just a cup of coffee and conversation about the times I have had dissapointing dive days like his (message: this is the way it goes, learn to live with it).

 

[EFX]

Changing the dynamic is a good creative solution. Refunds are bad, basically pure profit tossed out the window. Dive OP out money and overhead cost, customer still whining. Does not matter if it is just or deserved or required or not.

Swapping to a credit makes the customer feel they are ahead of the game and get them to STFU. Unless the dive boat sells out, the marginal cost for the free credit is almost nothing.

Is this the same as asking a store owner if he has free stuff to sell?
The operator isn't ahead. Someone has to pay. Whether it's a full or partial credit someone is paying. If it's not the shop then the DM doesn't get paid.

A discount rather than a full credit hedges against that.

At the expense of the customer. I wouldn't be happy.

This is why airlines are pretty quick to offer a credit voucher for $100 or $200 when problems arise and you bitch enough. They know it makes the whining customer satisfied, does not cost them cash flow and insures the next flight out will probably be back on their airline, as crappy as it is. If the customer is a one-shot wonder, then it cost you nothing. If they are a recurring customer, you retain them.

Credit vouchers work well with customers because there is a fairly high chance they will use them and thus they have value. For our op who lives locally with the dive shop this would be OK. What if it's a vacation diver? Do you think she will make a special trip back to use the voucher given that the service was crappy?

---------- Post added October 17th, 2014 at 12:16 PM ----------

I don't think the customer was entitled to anything more than he received, nor that he should ask. BUT if I were the business owner and I were asked, I'd offer him something, even something of no monetary value like an invite to a club event, or just a cup of coffee and conversation about the times I have had dissapointing dive days like his (message: this is the way it goes, learn to live with it).

Well, that's a good idea?????! I imagine it could go like this:

Shop owner:
Hey, thanks for dropping by. Here's a cup of coffee. About that charter -- we did refund your $20. But listen, even though that DM should have been able to pull out that cramp with or without your help, and he should have told the second DM to dive with you....you need to man-up. You know things can go wrong. Why, if we have to continue to refund money for bad services we would go out of business. Don't you agree?

Customer:
Yes, I understand now. I'm glad I drove all the way out here spending my time and gas for a cup of coffee I can get for $1.25. And, I was beginning to think that I was right. Geez...what was I thinking. Thanks for setting me straight. I now know I shouldn't expect to get good services for what I pay.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Is this the same as asking a store owner if he has free stuff to sell?
The operator isn't ahead. Someone has to pay. Whether it's a full or partial credit someone is paying. If it's not the shop then the DM doesn't get paid.

No one gets ahead when you have an bad customer experience. A dive op works different than a retailer or most services. The boat, diesel, insurance and crew cost remain the same if the boat is loaded with 2 divers or 20. So the cost of a credit is much less than the cost of a refund unless the dive boat run full on a regular basis.

Credit vouchers work good because people see the face value, which is significantly larger than the actual value. Many are never used since they expire, get lost, ect... It works to the vendors advantage because a repeat customer (who you should value) will likely use it. A one-shot vacation diver probably won't use it, but then spending money to retain them is a lost cause anyway.

Is it perfect, of course not. Better than telling the customer too bad and less expensive than refunding every time someone whines.

 

[mrdre]

... A dive op works different than a retailer or most services. The boat, diesel, insurance and crew cost remain the same if the boat is loaded with 2 divers or 20. ...

How is it different from any retail store who has to pay for rent, electricity, employees regardless if it got 2 or 20 visitors?

 

[Mike]

Changing the dynamic is a good creative solution. Refunds are bad, basically pure profit tossed out the window. Dive OP out money and overhead cost, customer still whining. Does not matter if it is just or deserved or required or not.

Swapping to a credit makes the customer feel they are ahead of the game and get them to STFU. Unless the dive boat sells out, the marginal cost for the free credit is almost nothing. A discount rather than a full credit hedges against that. This is why airlines are pretty quick to offer a credit voucher for $100 or $200 when problems arise and you bitch enough. They know it makes the whining customer satisfied, does not cost them cash flow and insures the next flight out will probably be back on their airline, as crappy as it is. If the customer is a one-shot wonder, then it cost you nothing. If they are a recurring customer, you retain them.

Precisely why I never want a credit. If you really are trying to solve the problem, make it right and do the right thing, it's a refund. Everybody knows that credits are smoke and mirrors. Refund, lets start over from zero. I may or may not ever want to darken your door again, refund me and then I'll see what I want to do.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I think a credit is more appropriate than a refund in an instance like this, in which reasonable minds can disagree whether ANYTHING is owed the customer. A credit can be interpreted as a show of goodwill--a gift. Both parties can feel vindicated. A "refund" carries the connotation that the business is admitting having not fulfilled its obligation to the customer. As this thread has shown, reasonable minds can disagree whether the dive operator and/or DM fulfilled their obligations on the first dive that was cut short by the DM's cramp.

The OP did get a refund of the DM fee for the second dive, which the DM never undertook.