Aqualung's stance on e commerce

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RJP:
Serious question: what's scubaboard's "paid circulation"?

Reason I ask is that "unpaid circulation" is not really considered all that important to advertisers. Likely not a fair comparison for a "scubaboard vs Sport Diver" discussion, but it's a unit of measure that's considered important. The idea is that a magazine that people proactively sought out, subscribed to, paid for, and renew delivers a more engaged audience.

Hopefully you include the "supporting member" counts in your discussions with potential advertisers. The fact that someone pays for something that they COULD get for free is an impressive indicator of the value of scubaboard.

Ray


How about how many "unpaid" readers there are of print magazines? (for comparison purposes). I bet they give away half their magazine they print. There are statistic websites that have this info on how many are printed each month and how many subscribers there are. You'd be surprised at how many are free, like Scubaboard.

I get most dive magazines free anyway. Most dive shops GIVE AWAY magazines such as ScubaDiving, Scuba News, Scuba Diving, or PADI Sport Diver. My LDS gives those all away plus a few more.

The magazine publishers give them away to increase number of readers. So just FYI for comparison purposes.


A better selling point that Scubaboard could use with discussions with potential
advertisers for Scubaboard would be "how often a GOOGLE search on something for Scuba leads them to Scubaboard (where their ad can be seen)" or hits per day. Each hit is at least 3 ad's on Scubaboard. (top, left side, and bottom)
 
ams511:
It is funny but most of know the first names of the dive stores and manufacturers that are active here, I recently went to two local dive stores and have no clue who the owners are, let alone their first names.

Don't confuse the three or four dozen of "us" that spend every waking hour on scubaboard with the 70,000 registered users or the gazillions of unique visitors.

Self-reference criteria is a serious problem for marketers "Everyone who looks like me and acts like me is the same as me."

Scubaboard has a very fragmented audience, with hugely diverse demographics. This is actually a NEGATIVE aspect in terms of it's appeal as an advertising medium. The reach and frequency that it provides may be of tremendous value, but it's inability to provide specific, targeted messages to specific targeted audiences is a shortcoming. This trade off can be sorted out for sure, but it does exist.
 
mike_s:
A better selling point that Scubaboard could use with discussions with potential
advertisers for Scubaboard would be "how often a GOOGLE search on something for Scuba leads them to Scubaboard (where their ad can be seen)" or hits per day. Each hit is at least 3 ad's on Scubaboard. (top, left side, and bottom)

Perhaps - would need to be proven. Another downside is the reletive receptivie of the audience to advertising messages depending on what media they are dealing with.

Magazines consistently rate the highest in terms of receptivity of audience to message. It's the only advertising media that is almost 100% "selective as to time and place of exposure" meaning that you make a conscious decision to put down everything else and set aside some time to read a magazine. Further, readers consider the advertising in magazines to have some "editorial value" in that you will very often buy magazines as much for the ads as the editorial content. (Think car/stereo/PC mags, etc.)

One medium is not always better than another, certainly not on it's face. Most marketers struggle with how to use different media differently. The web is just the latest media that marketers don't understand.

In fact, if it's any consolation most don't know understand TV, magazines, newspapers, billoboards, or radio either.

:)
 
RJP:
Don't confuse the three or four dozen of "us" that spend every waking hour on scubaboard with the 70,000 registered users or the gazillions of unique visitors.

Self-reference criteria is a serious problem for marketers "Everyone who looks like me and acts like me is the same as me."

Scubaboard has a very fragmented audience, with hugely diverse demographics. This is actually a NEGATIVE aspect in terms of it's appeal as an advertising medium. The reach and frequency that it provides may be of tremendous value, but it's inability to provide specific, targeted messages to specific targeted audiences is a shortcoming. This trade off can be sorted out for sure, but it does exist.

I strongly disagree with you here. The market for most consumer goods is highly fragmented much like Scubaboard, one-size-fits-all is 1970's old economy thinking. I don't subscribe to dive magazines because they are not dive magazines but dive travel magazines. I do not travel specifically for diving, however many here do. When I found myself on a trip to Singapore what did I do? I asked for opinions here and was told that it is not worth diving there. That is the strength of diversity.

When purchasing equipment I check the forms here first as well as the other boards such as TDS. I place a greater weight on diver's opinions than I do on a magazine reviewer's because I know advertising biases the review. Same thing with local dive stores, if I want to buy gear I know they will recommend what they have in stock, not what is the best for me. That is the resource of SB and the affect it has.

Probably the divers that spend the most money on equipment are technical divers. Do you think Sport Diver or Rodale's really reaches that demographic? They may subscribe only because it is inexpensive and take a quick look at the pictures but that is it.
 
I agree with a lot of what you have to say, however I really question the "explosion" in the number of certified divers. I think with the failure of as many as 30% of the local shops, you're going to find it tough to grow the sport. I could be completely wrong, but I don't think the price of gear is what's hindering certification at this point.

That's where I see the rub in this whole thing. I think you are going to see smart rretailers getting much heavier into the internet, which is a good thing, and you are going to see not so savvy retailers, and nearly all LDS in smaller communities, bite it. Soon the availability of classes is going to shrink to where it's only available in large market areas, or to people who can afford to travel, and if you can afford to travel and take scuba class it's not the price of gear that's keeping you away from the sport right now. I see it as a fairly sizeable net loss to the sport in terms of number of participants unless they can market the sport to the point where more of the high end consumers want to dive than ever before.

As far as grey marketeers go, it wouldn't shock me if they start seeing a lower return on their investments as the smarter retailers gain a greater share of the online market. Don't know if it'll be enough to get them looking into a completely different product line, but once it becomes less profitable they may give in some strong consideration.

It'll be an interesting future no matter what happens.

Later,


PhilEllis:
I think I have a pretty good idea of what will ACTUALLY happen as this model (LDS vs LDS with on-line shopping) will effect the scuba diving business.

On the Number of Local Dive Stores: I think over the next year we will see a reduction in the number of local dive stores here in the United States. That reduction will certainly be at least a 10% change, but the possibility for a 30% reduction clearly exists. In the larger cities, you may well see no change at all......they have a larger demographic market, allowing them to build volume through local business. While there will likely be some reduction in prices, it will not be gigantic. Their larger market will allow them to continue to attract new divers at a fairly high rate, without the need to greatly reduce prices. In the smaller city markets, it will be quite different.
Remember, I have argued that many of these stores opened in places that never could really be expected to support such a speciality business. The price, service, and delivery ability of the online stores will add enough pressure to make it even more difficult for them to survive in a limited market. Many are already marginal and even slight reductions in annual sales will create a brutal situation. I fear the days of the "dive shop in every town" is fast becoming obsolete.

On the General Price of Scuba Equipment: What you will see on price will be a two fold change. As the number of local dive stores with an internet sales presence increases, you will see slight increases in the price of equipment on the internet. If there are a large number of internet store competing for a rather slow growing sales market, they will need to increase prices a little to cover the normal costs of doing business. Margins at internet dive stores right now are about as low as they can afford to go. At the same time, you will see decreases in the prices asked for goods in the local scuba store. They will not be able to continue to demand list or list-plus with the variety of internet competition that will be present. Eventually, you will see the prices level so that both in-store and online (with a few exceptions) will offer about the same prices.

On the Continues Growth of Online Scuba Shopping: Nothing happening with the local scuba store will not stop the growth of on-line shopping for scuba gear. The current growth is driven less and less by price and more and more by the natural desire of the "new" dive customer age group to shop over the internet. As the online shopping practice of this generation continues to mature, you will see a preference for online shopping, just as there is a preference among this same group to get their information, news, music, movies, and other things over the internet. In fact, we are already seeing the contraction in the number of ads in yellow page books, as these "new" consumers prefer to use the internet for finding contact information for local businesses to fill their needs. The internet will eventually do to the mall exactly what the mall did to downtown shopping districts. Scuba retail will, of course, continue to grow with the tide of growth for shopping for other types of items.

On the Fortunes of the "Grey Market" Scuba Retailers: They will continue to be the lowest cost suppliers in this business. However, their very small margins will dictate that there will be very few of them, like it is today. They will grow larger, but their "impact" on the overall internet shopping market will diminish as the competition from factory authorized online dealers continues to grow. Our friends in New York will always be there, but their margins will be razor thin and they will have to improve on their already excellent business practices to survive.

On the Impact of All of This on Scuba Divers: We will probably see an explosion in the number of scuba divers entering this sport. As the entry cost of this sport is lowered by the falling prices of scuba equipment, there will be more new divers who are able to cross the cost threshold. In addition, programs like PADI's eLearning will capture diver through the "impulse" sale mechanism that drive literally millions of other products and activities. More information will be available on our great sport, and more people will be attracted to give it a try. Of this larger group attracted, some number will continue as life-long divers, probably in the same proportion we have today. The biggest impact on divers will probably the the increased product selection that will be driven in both online and local dive stores. As consumers and new divers get additional information about scuba products, the stores (both online and local) will be forced to inventory to meet those needs.

On the Impact for the Scuba Manufacturers: In the medium term, I think you will see several things. Those manufacturers that are already "friendly" toward online sales will be "forced" to develop slightly more aggressive MAP advertising programs. Allowed advertising discounts will get larger. Those manufacturers that do not get this whole change will do nothing, until the market share starts to noticeably change. This is already beginning and will continue to grow in seriousness over the next year or two. Eventually, the loss in market share will be serious enough to cause even the most strident to change their policies. We may even see manufacturers start to design slightly "less feature rich" products just for the internet market. I have always thought this was one solution for the current problem. In short, the manufacturers will probably change considerably. It is possible that the "direct from the factory" distribution model will need to change. The current distribution model, with the high dealer buy-in demands, prevents the small dealer from showing variety, an essential in the new scuba market to come. In fact, we may even see some brave scuba companies attempt a "direct to the consumer" marketing strategy over the internet. Smaller third-tier manufacturers are already doing this. In the end, the only for this need for variety in the local store may be a distributor model like that used in other industries, where manufacturers sell to distributors and distributors offer expanded brand offerings to the scuba store (Peter Skop Industries here in the southeast is a model for such distribution).

Wow. I didn't mean to write a book! i write like I talk.........using too many words and too little judgement. Anyway, just my viewpoint.

Phil Ellis
 
ams511:
I strongly disagree with you here. The market for most consumer goods is highly fragmented much like Scubaboard, one-size-fits-all is 1970's old economy thinking. I don't subscribe to dive magazines because they are not dive magazines but dive travel magazines. I do not travel specifically for diving, however many here do. When I found myself on a trip to Singapore what did I do? I asked for opinions here and was told that it is not worth diving there. That is the strength of diversity.

When purchasing equipment I check the forms here first as well as the other boards such as TDS. I place a greater weight on diver's opinions than I do on a magazine reviewer's because I know advertising biases the review. Same thing with local dive stores, if I want to buy gear I know they will recommend what they have in stock, not what is the best for me. That is the resource of SB and the affect it has.

Probably the divers that spend the most money on equipment are technical divers. Do you think Sport Diver or Rodale's really reaches that demographic? They may subscribe only because it is inexpensive and take a quick look at the pictures but that is it.

You're confusing the market with the media now, and in doing so verify the point I was making. The ability of a medium to specifically target a message to a demographic is where the power is. That's WHY Scuba Diving magazine is "a travel magazine" as you point out. They have determined that for them, that is the best demographic to go after. And according to their media kit, they are correct. For them. Since you don't travel to dive, they would actually prefer that you DIDN'T read their magazine, broadly speaking, because you would dilute their demographics.

Just because YOU don't read it, doesn't mean it's not read. You probably don't read the Journal of the American Academy of Pediatric Neurology either, but lots of people do. And the vast majority of them are not too surprisingly pediatric neurologists. So if you want to reach them, it's a great medium.

if you want to reach the average diver, who is a person who likely travels once or twice a year to a resort location then Scuba Diving magazine is a great way to reach them. Oh, and by the way they buy the vast majority of dive gear sold around the world. Perhaps not as a "dollars-per-diver" basis, but there's probably 1,000 recreational vacation divers for every tech diver.
 
friscuba:
I agree with a lot of what you have to say, however I really question the "explosion" in the number of certified divers. I think with the failure of as many as 30% of the local shops, you're going to find it tough to grow the sport. I could be completely wrong, but I don't think the price of gear is what's hindering certification at this point.

That's where I see the rub in this whole thing. I think you are going to see smart rretailers getting much heavier into the internet, which is a good thing, and you are going to see not so savvy retailers, and nearly all LDS in smaller communities, bite it. Soon the availability of classes is going to shrink to where it's only available in large market areas, or to people who can afford to travel, and if you can afford to travel and take scuba class it's not the price of gear that's keeping you away from the sport right now. I see it as a fairly sizeable net loss to the sport in terms of number of participants unless they can market the sport to the point where more of the high end consumers want to dive than ever before.

As far as grey marketeers go, it wouldn't shock me if they start seeing a lower return on their investments as the smarter retailers gain a greater share of the online market. Don't know if it'll be enough to get them looking into a completely different product line, but once it becomes less profitable they may give in some strong consideration.

It'll be an interesting future no matter what happens.

Later,

I based that proposition on several things. I have always believed that demand always begats supply. Where there is demand for scuba certification, there will be a supply outlet that will develop to cover that demand (within reason...I understand that there is tremendous elasticity in the supply and demand thing). While we might see full time scuba operations closing in smaller towns and cities, I still believe that there will instructors who advertise and promote scuba training, without the high overhead of operating a dive shop. In addition, I feel that you will see healthy scuba operations in nearby areas offering training in those areas that don't have supply. With the closings of many stores in a couple of towns near us, we are considering offering some number of scuba classes in a town about 50 miles away to satisfy the demand that has resulted in the closing of a long time scuba store there.

The lowering of the cost of participation in the sport will open scuba diving to people who were slightly outside the purchase threshold in the past. When we lowered the prices of scuba equipment in our store, we saw fairly considerable numbers of people, who had previously stated that the cost was a little too high for their budget, coming back to take scuba classes and purchase equipment because of the reduced prices.

I also have great hope and faith that the PADI eLearning program will acheive the "implulse sales" of scuba training when interested web surfers realize that they can sign up for scuba training immediately......even at midnight if they choose.

I would caution this. The explosion in diver certifications may well be in different places from where they happened in the past. We may see larger numbers of people purchasing the academic materials from the PADI eLearning program and designating dive shops in "destination" locations as their water skills shop. While this change might not be attractive for the inland stores, it probably will increase the number of people earning certications in the aggregate.

Phil Ellis
 
Internet shopping is without question our current standard of finding what many, if not most of us want or need. Services or equipment, scant mouseclicks away. For many sectors of our commerce, lives, it's great. Some things may not be so internet friendly. Things don't go well on a golf course, it's a bad experience, and you walk (run!) away. Have a panic episode in deep water, will you get to swim away?

The circle of the three "E's" in the classic dive store business model (Educate, Equip, Experience) is also the model of many other activities where walking away from a bad experience is sometimes not an option.

If the balance of the three E's is disrupted, what impacts will the start up practitioner epect? If reasonable commerce can't be had for the sus of the three E's, where will the start up go? Skydiving, not unlike scuba diving, can't grow because the economic balance to date is out of balance. A career has a blacksmith was once forever until Ford came along. Can the internet replace the brick and mortar retailer?

The people of Scubaboard (divers, retailers, manufacture's, training agencies) will choose what they think best. If we don't screw up, we may even be able to keep the government out of our chosen lifestlye. If we don't, we could easily be as regulated has the recreational pilots of our country. If this circle gets drastically broken, we all lose.

Change is OK. Our gear from decades ago is not what most of us, even most of us older divers, would want to dive with today. Same, or similar for training, and dive opportunities. Yes, internet or some form of it will be around for some time, but don't most come here because they want to hear (read) from other people? Don't most of us want to go diving with other people? We need each other, bricks and mortor and cyberspace to really improve while going forward. If the balance that Aqua Lung desires fails to deliver what we consumers want, they will either adjust, or not. But has consumers, if we lose our balance, will we get what we want? I doubt it. Many a dive site no longer exist because environmentally we lost our balance. I think we should be careful about our balance or we'll be guilty of perpetuating or previous experiences.
 
RJP:
You're confusing the market with the media now, and in doing so verify the point I was making. The ability of a medium to specifically target a message to a demographic is where the power is. That's WHY Scuba Diving magazine is "a travel magazine" as you point out. They have determined that for them, that is the best demographic to go after. And according to their media kit, they are correct. For them. Since you don't travel to dive, they would actually prefer that you DIDN'T read their magazine, broadly speaking, because you would dilute their demographics.

Just because YOU don't read it, doesn't mean it's not read. You probably don't read the Journal of the American Academy of Pediatric Neurology either, but lots of people do. And the vast majority of them are not too surprisingly pediatric neurologists. So if you want to reach them, it's a great medium.

if you want to reach the average diver, who is a person who likely travels once or twice a year to a resort location then Scuba Diving magazine is a great way to reach them. Oh, and by the way they buy the vast majority of dive gear sold around the world. Perhaps not as a "dollars-per-diver" basis, but there's probably 1,000 recreational vacation divers for every tech diver.

I am not confusing the market with media. My assumption is that the market comes first and then media is used to reach specific market segments. If a technical dive manufacturer wants to reach technical divers then Sport Diving or Scuba Diving would not be the appropriate media outlet because the proportion of such divers represented in the suscriber base of these magazines is too low to be cost effective. The manufacturers would be better off advertising on Scubaboard, The Deco Stop, or Spearboard because of lower cost and the ability to selectively target customers.

I realize that there are a ton of periodicals in the marketplace and many target a small captive audience like the one you mentioned. I read several. However many of these journals are becoming e-journals and are logged in databases so the print distribution is obsolete. The same way CD's are becoming obsolete in the digital age.

I agree with you that Sport Diver and Skin Diver is a great place to advertise if you are in the dive travel industry. However, I am not sure it is the best place for Aqualung to advertise being these divers may not buy equipment but rather rent it at the destination.

My prediction is that you will see more technical diving discussed in these magazines now that the big manufacturers are coming out with technical gear. The reason is the magazine can get more ad revenue not because their readership supports it.
 
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