bad air?

[Chebby]

Hi.

During the dive this morning I felt a strong headacke during the entire dive. As I had to surface during the dive to look for my buddy (and eventually spent 15 minutes on the surface, don't ask me why, breathing out of the snorkel), I felt much better. It got worse as I went back down to finish the dive. This never happened to me before in my 50+ dives. I felt it with my whole brain, very similar to what I would get if I were to wake up after a night of drinking.

Later as I was thinking about it, the only thing that came to my mind is that I filled my tanks at a different place than usual. Actually instead of using a compressor, that shop uses storage tanks instead. I was just wondering if air can go bad and can cause a headacke or it was just a completely different reason at all.

thanx

 

[wolf eel]

[50+ dives. I felt it with my whole brain, very similar to what I would get if I were to wake up after a night of drinking.

Later as I was thinking about it, the only thing that came to my mind is that I filled my tanks at a different place than usual. Actually instead of using a compressor, that shop uses storage tanks instead. I was just wondering if air can go bad and can cause a headacke or it was just a completely different reason at all.]

Hi
Did you clear properly? That could be the first reason.

If so did your dive shop you got the air from have they had a Z81 air test ?

Do you have the tank still full of that air ? That way you could get it checked.

Have you seen a doctor Yet. You should explain it all. Depth time everything. It could be alergies. The last time it happened was it about the same time of year ? Brain box sqeeze could mean something so again talk with your doctor and explain everything. Including what you may have done before the dive.

Can a cascade foul yes they can over time and improper use. It does sound like monoxide was the fill station gas or electric. There is a thsound reasons to have bad air. You do not hear about much these's days but it still can happen. I was hacking up oil for about 2 months this summer. Bad operator bad service.

They caught wind and changed everything and sent for a z81 test and of course it
passed but several others had lung issues.

I no longer promote that LDS

Cheers
:sunny Derek

 

[mech]

Was your breathing pattern regular?
A skip breath breathing pattern is capable of causing a headache from hell.

 

[pufferfish]

Talk to the LDS owner and see when his last air test was. If he is a PADI or NAUI shop he or she should be testing quarterly to the CGA Grade E standard according to agency standards. If he is not testing ask why not and if you are not satisfied with the answer take you business elsewhere. As a PADI affiliated shop in the USA he should have a quartely air test on file to show customers.

A contaminant like CO is certainly a possibility for headaches but so are many other things like cold, CO2, sinus problems, migraine, etc.

 

[wolf eel]

[A contaminant like CO is certainly a possibility for headaches but so are many other things like cold, CO2, sinus problems, migraine, etc.]

I am not a doctor in any fashion. I just thought if you had a migraine you would know that might be it ?

The pressure I think the diver was talking about was more like brain sqeeze not a headache as to say. If you have a migraine you would not ditch it by useing your snorkel or would the pressure from a sinus cavity just disapear like that. It would have acted like a reverse block would it not have ?

I have had what I will describe as brain sqeeze and it hurt from what seemed like the inside but it was muscle tention in the neck reaching deep into the brain box.

I know their are lots of other reasons but would seeing a doctor not be a good place to start?

The air thing is on my mind these days so sorry if I responded a little hasty. But ask about the air quality from the dive shop and they should have records of it. Some like to post them for the customer to gleam with joy knowing they have good air !

Cheers

:sunny Derek

 

[mustfajohnson]

Had a situation much like yours once except several people on the boat had the same complaint. We called DAN and after much discussion they decided the CO2 content of the tank "may" have been excessive. Next day same boat and dive group no problems.

 

[pufferfish]

The air thing is on my mind these days so sorry if I responded a little hasty. But ask about the air quality from the dive shop and they should have records of it. Some like to post them for the customer to gleam with joy knowing they have good air !

Sorry Derek I should have said other general common causes of headaches in divers not refering to this case specifically, but you are correct in the line of questioning of how to eliminate some of the specific causes of headaches in divers. Something though as simple as not having a hood in cold water can result in a cold stimulus headache which would likely resolve on surface in warm air.

As for CO it certainly would be on the list especially if others who had filled at the same shop had symptoms but remember the effect of any contaminant in your tank depends on the concentration, depth of the dive, duration of exposure, and individual diver factors like smoking, age, fitness etc. A 20 year old fit Navy diver can withstand a higher dose of CO than an out of shape 65 year old diver on medication for blood pressure.

As for this specific case one would have expected possibly some nausea along with the headache although not always but given the elimination time of CO from the body I would not have expected if CO for the symptoms to resolve so quickly.

You are right in that the only way to know for sure is test the air in the tank. Depending on where you live your local fire department often has a handheld monitor they might let you use to test the air, or you can rent one from a safety supply house. Alternatively you can send a sample of the air into an accredited lab for analysis. I know some shops where the owner has offered to pay for the analysis when the air quality has been in question.

The one thing I would have done differently in this case is not head back down after the symptoms resolved on surface if bad air was a consideration. If you are in doubt about the quality of air in your tank just thumb the dive but don't empty the tank right away in case you or the LDS wants to send a sample to the lab.

Best way to prevent air quality issues is to only use shops that are testing quarterly by an accredited breathing gas lab to the CGA Gd. E standard in the US or to CSA Z180.1 in Canada. Always smell the air for any oil odours. Unfortunately CO is odorless, tasteless, irritantless, and colorless so being aware of new symptoms underwater is important.

And when in doubt about air quality especially if at a new unknown fill station proceed with caution and remain 'air aware'.

 

[wolf eel]

[This never happened to me before in my 50+ dives.]

Hi again
I read this all wrong i thought you had a problem before sorry for that.

As pufferfish pointed out there are many reasons for headaches. But not the best idea to continue the dive. I agree there completley.

Again question the air and talk with somebody like a doctor ?
But if you have dove only a few times and it would seem that you may have had some stress due to your buddy it could have just been stress.

Oh Yea thats z180.1 not z81 the radio station :djbluey:
Glad to hear you are OK
happy dives

:sunny Derek I live on the sunshine coast so I have to include the sunshine

 

[Chebby]

Thank you all for the wealth of info. I was interested if this kind of stuff is possible and what other explanations could be. As this LDS is very far from me, I don’t think I’ll ever go there again for fills (I might still need it for equipment servicing) even if I didn’t suspect the air was bad. I think it would be a good idea for me to by a CO or CO2 (what is the difference anyway?) detector, but not now as it’s a bit tight with money (same goes for testing). Although I might give a call to the local fire department to see if they might let me do it for free. As far as doctors are concerned, it’ll be a cold day in hell when I willingly go to one.

I will mention it to the LDS owner even though I am not nearly sure air was the reason and suspect it might ruin my relationship with him. Btw, these are brand new steel tanks; they don’t paint them on the inside, do they?

I do agree other factors could be a factor. I remember having migraines 2 years ago (but these were localized pinching pains) which I think were stress related. Being in traffic for 2 hours before the dive was certainly stressful. One other thing could have contributed is me hanging almost upside down a lot looking for lobsters, I don’t know about water physics but doing it on the surface might give me a headache (although I do it on every dive). Also I do believe my breathing was irregular as I was behind my buddy in the number of lobsters collected and was moving a lot to make up (but again, not unusual for me). Depth was around 25 feet and it wasn’t cold at all.

 

[ScubaNorth]

CO or CO2 (what is the difference anyway?)

One oxygen molecule (oops atom, darn chemistry).