Bad Dive Master

[RiverRat]

I think diving is just like many other sports and professions in some ways. They all have their "hacks". Folks get into it but never really want to put the time in to learn and practice to become really good. Or even half way decent. I'm not saying we all have to be the best divers in the world but man, at least practice and get enough dives in to become competent.

 

[djesser]

I always looked at the OW certification as a license to learn. It's just like a driver's license. It says you have the minimum skills necessary to drive or in this case, dive. That means you get experience by diving, hopefully with experienced divers, and you pursue continuing education when you have the opportunity. I see no rush to have an Advanced Open Water card. I waited almost three years before doing my Advanced, another three for Rescue, and then another two for Dive Master and Instructor. I think your approach is a good one.

Just stay active and dive with responsible divers who put safety first. Make sure you get in the pool a few times in the winter (that lifetime pool use your dive shop offers is great--to get in the pool here cost $25.00!!) with your dive gear to keep up with the equipment and set-up. It's easy to forget if you don't do it for a while and the pools are great for keeping "tuned" up. Also, find a good SCUBA magazine and read the equipment and safety reviews. I have always liked Rodale's...now called Scuba Diving Magazine...as it has a great column called "Lessons for Life" which writes of real life emergency situations and how they could have been avoided.

I have held my PADI DM certification since 1996 and I also hold BSAC OW Instructor status. I never felt any one organization had a strangle hold on the "best" training regime. I respect them all. A lot of it comes down to just good instructors -- no matter what the agency -- and getting experience. I think all the agencies offer adequate BASIC training for the OW certification provided the newly minted diver sees it for what it is worth: a license to learn.

 

[radio flyer]

Aquanautchuck said: "Don't get me going about the limited training and dives required by agencies. I just do not understand this Put Another Dollar In concept. "

In academia, we have a wonderful phrase for this, which seems to me to be especially applicable--

"Pack 'em Deep, Teach 'em Cheap!"

 

[jbichsel]

I haven't read every post in this thread, but it is interesting so far.

First, I think we PADI pros need to make it clear that there really is no "Advanced Open Water" certification anymore. What is commonly referred to as AOW is now in fact, Adventures in Diving and results in an Adventure Diver.

To PADI's credit, they tried several years ago to restructure and create a more aggressive, more competent Advanced Diver program, but the buying public didn't "buy" into it.

The feedback was generally that it took too long, cost to much.

While I do place much of the blame on the training agenceies and the RSTC, I also believe we are fighting a societal problem and mentality for "instant gratification". People want everything right now for the least amount of money.

So there are market factors that drive the agencies to do what they do.

I'm in no way defending the horribly low standards that are in effect for current certification at ALL levels. But to be fair, I think we need to look at society for a portion of our problem.

 

[ScubaKris]

Understand what a die master is. took open water course, 4 dives, next weekend took advanced, maybe 5 dives, then rescue, maybe not even a real dive, a couple of dives with dive classes a nd your a divemaster working for free or free boat trips + tips. Most people tip more at breakfast then they do on the dive boat. In that area they probably don't get a lot of diving in

 

[Thalassamania]

Yeah ... reminds me of the kid who kills his parents and throws himself on the mercy of the court because he's an orphan.

Whom do you think has been pushing the shorter courses, less content, concept since the 1970s? LA County is the only agency that really had the guts to stand up against it, the others (to one degree or another) compromised their programs to remain "competitive."

 

[jbichsel]

I have held my PADI DM certification since 1996 and I also hold BSAC OW Instructor status. I never felt any one organization had a strangle hold on the "best" training regime. I respect them all. A lot of it comes down to just good instructors -- no matter what the agency -- and getting experience. .

Sorry but I have to take issue from my perspective.

I have a hard time "respecting" all the agencies that keep lowering the standards for certification. Sure they all adhere to RSTC guidlines, but who is the RSTC? It's the training agencies regulating themselves.

That makes about as much sense as the U.S. Congress voting on their own pay raises, healthcare and retirement. See where that has lead?

Yes, I agree and have stated many times that the instructor has more to do with quality education than the agency or ciriculum. I have even had officials at PADI agree with this. However, the next point I make seems to fall on deaf ears:

Given that the instructor makes more difference, and knowing that there are instructors that will ONLY perform to the minimum standards, why not raise the level of minimum standards to compensate for those who only perform to minimums?

I think all the agencies offer adequate BASIC training for the OW certification provided the newly minted diver sees it for what it is worth: a license to learn.

I think that the agencies offer/require woefully inadequate BASIC training for OW, AOW, Rescue, DM, AI and Instructor!

Yes, the OW is a license to learn, but there needs to be a higher level of beginner that is put into the mix. Four dives does not produce any kind of qualified diver, especially when conditions can vary so much from OW class to first dive after class.

What about an newly certified OW student certified in inland lakes somewhere wearing 7mm suit, 7mm hooded vest, mittens, etc., and their next dive is Cozumel, 1mm suit, saltwater, amazing amounts of fish/sea life to snag their attention?

Think there might be some issues with buoyancy? Trim(which isn't a required skill)?

Now the next dive is a night dive; is this diver prepared? Not in my estimation, but the agencies believe so.

I've seen enough DM's, AI's and instructors that have no business being alone in the shower to know that OW certification requirements are abysmal.

But again, society is partly to blame with the "I want it now, but don't want to pay or work for it" mentality.

 

[RiverRat]

Understand what a die master is. took open water course, 4 dives, next weekend took advanced, maybe 5 dives, then rescue, maybe not even a real dive, a couple of dives with dive classes a nd your a divemaster working for free or free boat trips + tips. Most people tip more at breakfast then they do on the dive boat. In that area they probably don't get a lot of diving in

C'mon.....lighten up! I'm sure that is true for SOME "die master's" but not all. I've actually got way more experience than many instructors out there. So why not start bashing some instructors now lol It depends on the individual and what they get out of their training and what they want to put back into it. Like diving, and if instructor oriented, then get out and instruct in OW, and actually go out and do some varied diving in as many different conditions as you can to gain experience.

People forget real quick what it was like on their first OW dives. Yes, usually Instructors and "die masters" saving peoples asses. Dumping air for them while they shoot to the surface, checking/sharing air when they hoove down to 200 psi., finding them when they silt out the quarry in AOW search and recovery, helping them put their weight belt back on, etc. etc.

But again, society is partly to blame with the "I want it now, but don't want to pay or work for it" mentality.

I agree, especially after being on both sides of the fence now. People moan all the time, "how long is this going to take?" "I have to pick my kid's up at soccer practice at 4:00PM" Rush, rush, rush.......... " I didn't have time to do the knowledge reviews or read the book".

It's a combo of that and the dumbed down curriculum. The eRDP is the latest joke.

 

[ScubaDivaDivemaster]

Understand what a die master is. took open water course, 4 dives, next weekend took advanced, maybe 5 dives, then rescue, maybe not even a real dive, a couple of dives with dive classes a nd your a divemaster working for free or free boat trips + tips. Most people tip more at breakfast then they do on the dive boat. In that area they probably don't get a lot of diving in

I'm not sure how much you know about Divemasters, but the training I had was a helluva lot harder than that, and ain't nothin free in this world anymore!

 

[ScubaDivaDivemaster]

Sorry but I have to take issue from my perspective.

I've seen enough DM's, AI's and instructors that have no business being alone in the shower to know that OW certification requirements are abysmal.

But again, society is partly to blame with the "I want it now, but don't want to pay or work for it" mentality.

I'm with you on SO many points on this one...I've had three times more dives and training than some instructors I've seen. I agree that one of the BIGGEST problems with our society is, I WANT IT NOW AND I WANT IT FAST AND CHEAP. Well, if life is cheap...go for the shop that does the one weekend class and "have a nice (short) life"...

I am so tired of the "me" mentality, especially in a life support sport. I've had some horrible experieces with DM's on several of the trips I've taken (and PAID for scubakris), but overall, I've had positive experiences and I try to trust the DM's until I have reason not to...well, cautiously trust them.

#1 rule, be well trained, follow the rules and be able to take care of yourself and your buddy. Meaning...don't rely on everyone else to take care of you.

Now get me off this soapbox, I'm getting dizzy and I'm just getting started.