This has got to be one of the crudest remarks I've seen on scubaboard, but I'm glad its here so I can set things straight. Its not the newbies that are idiots, its the instructors that taught them that are idiots. The newbies only know what their instructor(s) taught them.caseybird:
Best training ever.
- Thread starter Gary D.
- Start date
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On a cursory read it may seem as though the newbie is at fault. Not so at all. It is the instructor that is at fault for the incompetence of the new diver. There is a difference between lacking experience and being incompetent. Experience is a numbers game based on exposure to an activity. Incompetence is the result of poor training for which the instructor is responsible.ckjacques53198:
NWGratefulDiver:
I was thinking about this myself. Perhaps tech w/ wreck penetration? Tough though
Of the local instructors I only know one or two who are certified to that level... then again I only know maybe a dozen or so.
The trip I'm on right now is about half instructors (out of the 17 of us). On the plane down, several of them were talking and completely agreed that OW does not render people competent to dive independently. They all agreed that AT LEAST AOW was necessary, and several felt that even that was not enough.
They're teaching a class that ostensibly trains you to dive, and they all agree it does not. There's something VERY wrong about that.
They're teaching a class that ostensibly trains you to dive, and they all agree it does not. There's something VERY wrong about that.
I went through four instrcutors. First one taught us one weekend--I had studied everything and home and just showed up to the dives, the other two people in the class, two girls who were sisters, went to the class. First weekend was in the pool with this guy. I had never set up scuba gear but had it all ready in half the time of the girls. In the water, one of the girls kept complaining that her toe was cramping up. she freaked out a few times and surfaced, but we were at 13' so it was ok. Next weekend, that instructor was out of town, we got the dive shop owner, who does alot of cave diving. Another instructor that she was teaching met us at the spring and we all got in the water. First dive was simple, I had some trouble sitting still on the bottom, I wasn't too negative, but did ok. The one girl had trouble descending and equalizing. Next dive was in the second spring, right next to the first. This dive, the instructor felt sick and had the person she was teaching take us down. Once again, the one girl had trouble equalizing and descending. She did ok though, and she did have a faulty bc: dump valve leaked. Made her negative if she didn't add air every minute or two. Next day, we got the dive shop owners' ex husband, who is also a cave diver and very experienced. First dive was ok, last dive the same girl couldn't equalize well and so after having myself and the other girl do some skills at 40' or so, he told us to just swim around and have fun while he spent 30 minutes workingon the skills with the other girl in a little shallower area.
Honestly, I don't think the other two girls are going to get into diving much. One girl's husband dove, and she was getting certified to go diving with him on a cruise. I was getting certified to go diving on a cruise this december, but also becuase I'd been wanting a certification for years. I already have equipment, bought a week or two after the class ended. Two of the dive shops locally, including the one I learned at, teach PADI. The third teaches NAUI. My friend got trained NAUI. The shop I was trained at is very much a Scubapro shop, the other PADI place is very much Oceanic, the NAUI place I don't know about, I haven't spent much time there. I'm not sure how well the other two girls will do while diving, especially the one that had problems with toe craps and panicking underwater and surfacing quickly. I might surface quickly if my mask flooded in saltwater, becuase I cannot stand having it in my eyes or in my mouth, but in springs, the other day I dove with a mask that flooded every minute or two (loaned it to a friend and didn't adjust it before the dive) and didn't surface until my buddy wanted to. My training was adequate, and the instructor did pass the other two as far as I know, though he spent a good bit of time working with the one. The class was small, so we all got great personal attention, they made sure we did good on the skills and looked like we were diving well, rather than having us all do the skills at once. I was worried I'd be in a big class that had us all do the stuff at the same time, where they wouldn't notice if I wasn't doing something right, but it was totally great.
Honestly, I don't think the other two girls are going to get into diving much. One girl's husband dove, and she was getting certified to go diving with him on a cruise. I was getting certified to go diving on a cruise this december, but also becuase I'd been wanting a certification for years. I already have equipment, bought a week or two after the class ended. Two of the dive shops locally, including the one I learned at, teach PADI. The third teaches NAUI. My friend got trained NAUI. The shop I was trained at is very much a Scubapro shop, the other PADI place is very much Oceanic, the NAUI place I don't know about, I haven't spent much time there. I'm not sure how well the other two girls will do while diving, especially the one that had problems with toe craps and panicking underwater and surfacing quickly. I might surface quickly if my mask flooded in saltwater, becuase I cannot stand having it in my eyes or in my mouth, but in springs, the other day I dove with a mask that flooded every minute or two (loaned it to a friend and didn't adjust it before the dive) and didn't surface until my buddy wanted to. My training was adequate, and the instructor did pass the other two as far as I know, though he spent a good bit of time working with the one. The class was small, so we all got great personal attention, they made sure we did good on the skills and looked like we were diving well, rather than having us all do the skills at once. I was worried I'd be in a big class that had us all do the stuff at the same time, where they wouldn't notice if I wasn't doing something right, but it was totally great.
seen to much money spend on a reg without common features! i knew there was a reason my sp regs are blowing bubbles. ok, just kiddin'!jeckyll:My LDS has Tuesday night "fun dives" a.k.a. Not-so-fun Dives. I stopped going because it's generally a CF. Or I go early and get a dive in with one of the DM's or Instructors to ensure we have a good dive first...
BTW, my Atomics must be inferior to the Scubapro's as well, they didn't come with the self cleaning feature.
On a serious note: Gary, I guess the guy wasn't willing to listen to some suggestions? Sounds like after his 'training' he could use some mentoring to try and correct some of the 'excellent training'
caseybird:
Speak for yourself buddy, you were a Newbie too at one time
Aric M L
Registered
jbd:
Thank you jbd, a lot of the people on this thread are making being new to diving out like it were some type of disease. There's more to how much common sense you approach a dive with than just the number of dives you have been on before. Exclusive elitist comments like some I've seen on this thread are a prime example of what makes a "noobie" afraid to try and learn more. Isn't the whole point of a forum to exchange the knowledge you have instead of ostracize people who might've been taught something incorrect? We've all had a first dive and we've all had to start learning about equipment somewhere. While a self-clean feature on a reg sounds ridiculous, to someone who is only learning how they work, they'll soak up what "vets" tell them like a sponge. Cut us some slack instead of cutting "noobs" down.
On my very first OW dive after training (back in '98), I was put with a "more experienced" diver, this was going to be his SECOND dive after training. We were diving in a quarry in a section that only drops to 12m (about 38 feet). We dropped down and when we got to the bottom he signalled to go to the surface. He got there a bit faster than me, and had started coming back down by the time I was just below the surface. So we went back down again. After about a minute at the bottom he indicated that he needed to go to the surafce again. I was perplexed, but of course agreed. We got to the surface a bit slower this time and when there I asked him what was wrong. He said, "I needed to spit"....
I have avoided diving with him since on the rare occasions that we have met!
I have avoided diving with him since on the rare occasions that we have met!
Babies learn to crawl before they learn to stand up and it takes many months of falling over before they can run. You teach a person to clear a mask underwater. When they can do it, you certfy it and move on to the next skill. The instructor is there to help and encourage. Whilst some students learn faster and have more natural talent than others, students are not competant, if they were they wouldn't be there. The advanced instructor often sees the student instructor in the same light. This isn't a service to tell them they are still incompetant or barely competant. All an instructor can do, is provide lectures in theory, demonstrate method and observe and correct your efforts. To retain knowledge and pratical skills requires revision and practice. Regular practice over a long period develops expertise.
Most of us in the beginnning couldn't control our buoyancy, clear a mask, fasten our kit or a miriad of other things. We were also nervous and forgetful, had free flows, dropped weight belts and made just about every mistake, but somehow we have always managed to survive although we know of people who didn't. I'm a better diver than I was last year, if you dive regularly, so are you.
Most of us in the beginnning couldn't control our buoyancy, clear a mask, fasten our kit or a miriad of other things. We were also nervous and forgetful, had free flows, dropped weight belts and made just about every mistake, but somehow we have always managed to survive although we know of people who didn't. I'm a better diver than I was last year, if you dive regularly, so are you.
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