Beyond 130 feet: always a deco dive?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

mstachowsky

Registered
Messages
42
Reaction score
7
# of dives
25 - 49
Just wondering about this: if you dive with a computer to beyond 130 feet, will you ALWAYS be in a decompression situation? Well, I guess that's worded badly. Let's try this: "recreational divers plan all dives to be no stop dives". Does that mean that beyond 130 feet, you will always have to do a stop, and therefore be tech diving and not recreational diving? (I use 130 feet because it seems to be the max depths of most agencies, but I often see posts of people talking about going deeper, and I'm wondering if they are tech diving or just recreational divers who know how to do a safety stop?)
 
Many computers will give you "NDL" or "no-stop" time for depths beyond 130', but it will be shorter and shorter in duration as you descend deeper. 130' is the max depth for recreational diving for multiple reasons:
-narcosis becomes severe after 130' unless helium is in the breathing gas.
-failures which occur below 130' are now more serious as most divers cannot simply swim to the surface at a safe rate. Tech divers carry redundant equipment for this reason; to safely get one back to the surface in the event of equipment failure.
-NDLs are very short and if something goes wrong you may blow past the NDL and now you have a decompression obligation which if blown may very likely result in a DCS hit to the brain/spine.
-Training for how to respond to stress/problems while under an increased level of impairedness (narcosis) is not part of recreational training.

These are just some of the reasoning behind 130'
 
No you can probably dive about 200 ft or so with no deco... Look at the navy dive tables... i think it says 5 minutes is limit to around 200.

Of course, if you are gonna dive much past 130 feet, it really should be planned as a deco dive and all that entails.
 
So then how DO you get trained to go beyond the recreational depth limits? What experience do people have before they contemplate doing so?
 
So then how DO you get trained to go beyond the recreational depth limits? What experience do people have before they contemplate doing so?
You take the technical training courses.. And as to how much experience - Probably a complete waste of time untill your bouyancy and trim are beyond good. And then you need to learn it all over again in different gear :p
 
No you can probably dive about 200 ft or so with no deco... Look at the navy dive tables... i think it says 5 minutes is limit to around 200.

The Navy Tables are awesome if you're a 20 year old in great shape and brought a Navy with you . . .

If you're not and you didn't, vPlanner calls for more than 20 minutes of deco.

flots.
 
140 is on the PADI dive tables for people who "accidentally" go beyond the limit. 160 is maximum no deco I've seen with bottom time at 5 minutes. Like mentioned above, there are reasons why there is a limit for depth. It takes a long time to get to that point (took me 11 years), and even I'm new and have to draw a line. Knowing limits is one of the best skills you can learn.
 
1. Your recreational certification is to 130 (assuming you took the Advance course, otherwise you are limited to 60 feet) and your dive tables end there for non-deco diving.
2. There is a reason recreational diving is limited to 130 feet.
3. There are things you don't know about diving below 130 feet. In short You don't know what you don't know. So until you take the training and get your technical certification you should limit your dives to 130 feet or less.
4. Example of what you may not know, but need to Question in 3 parts:
A: At what depth does breathing 100% O2 become deadly?
B: At what depth does breathing 21% O2, 78% Nitorgen, 1% various other gases become deadly?
C: Why does 21% O2 become deadly at the depth from B?
If you don't know the answer to questions 4 A, B and C right now and a whole host of others things including the question you asked, you do not belong below 130 feet. There are many other things you would need to know. I am not a tech diver, and here is not the place to discuss those other things. Your tech diving istructor is that place.

People have mentioned NAVY dive tables. A few key points - Navy divers are NOT recreational divers and have different training. Navy divers are young, phycially fit and have a decompresion chamber waiting on the ship for them. If you are not a currenty serving Navy Diver, using the Navy dive tables without additional training may not be in your best interest. There is a difference between 20 years old 6 Foot tall, 180 pounds, can do 100 push-ups, 6 pack abs and runs 2 miles in under 14 minutes Navy diver and the 40+ years old, 6 foot tall, 270 pounds, gets out of breath walking up the 4 stairs to their front door, has a 6 pack alright but it is hanging over his belt, and hasn't done a push-up in years, recreational diver.
 
4A: You dont need to be breathing 100% o2 to do deco diving.
4B: What PPO2 do you deem safe? Regardless MUCH deeper than 130ft (Infact twice as deep - or more depending on suseptibility) so my major concern would be narcosis well before oxtox..
4C: Because convulsing and drowning is bad, but once again - on air Id have bigger concerns before the tox.

Oh, and you dont need any tech training to answer those questions - Nitrox, which can be done along with OW (IN THE SAME COURSE) is plenty..
 
As joe8mofo states, there are other criteria which contribute to most agencies setting 130ft as a maximum depth limit for recreational divers. Narcosis management is prime among them - and has an impact on all the other criteria.

Without technical training, recreational divers are not trained, by default, in certain key deep diving competencies. Neither are they expected, or required, to have a minimum level of redundancy (beyond the existence of a buddy).

Narcosis
Nitrogen/Inert Gas Narcosis typically starts to degrade performance around 30m/100ft. The effects become much stronger for each few meters beyond that. For many divers, especially those without ingrained functional diving skills, they will become debilitating or at the least, significantly reduce performance, beyond 40m/130ft. Symptoms of narcosis may not be present, but a diver will still be impaired. The typical CO2 retention associated with stressful incidents (exertion and/or elevated respiration) can also cause a rapid spike in narcosis and catastrophically degrade mental performance when it is most needed to save your life.

Time to Surface
If you consider 40m/130ft in respect of 'time-to-the-surface' then (depending on your training agency) you have 2-4 minutes of ascent travel to reach safety should a problem arise. That is a long time to potentially have no air to breath - and beyond the capabilities of many people. In contrast, 18m/60ft (1-2 minute ascent) is easily within the capabilities of most people to achieve on a single breath/exhalation. In essence, the 'last fail-safe' of a Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent can be denied to the diver.

Gas Consumption
Whilst your respiration may remain constant, there is a direct relationship between the volume of gas consumed and the ambient pressure it is breathed at. Deeper diving will entail highly elevated consumption of gas supplies, requiring greater situational awareness and more diligent monitoring of gauges. The duration of deep dives will be significantly limited by the gas supply available to the diver. Recreational divers rarely receive the training necessary to calculate their air consumption at a given depth and for the following ascent.

Equipment Functionality
The effects of increased ambient pressure and workload dealing with denser gas flow causes more strain on scuba equipment. This can lead to increased risk of equipment failure. When coupled with the other factors listed, an equipment failure below 40m/130ft is significantly more serious that it would be within recreational diving depths. Whilst technical divers are trained to identify such risks and mitigate them through a calculated system of equipment/gas redundancy and refined emergency procedures, there is little provision of these safeguards within recreational diving course syllabus.

Bottom Time
It is possible to calculate dives beyond 40m/130ft that still provide an NDL. Even the PADI RDP states a 4 minute bottom time at that maximum depth. Whether such times, especially when descent time is considered, remain worthwhile or meaningful is very questionable. At the most, the diver will be restricted to a 'bounce dive' - which presents further complications and risks from a physiological/decompression perspective. Also, as per gas consumption, the shorter duration of bottom demands a much higher degree of situational awareness and 'gauge vigilance' from the diver. A distraction, or any unforeseen delay, can much more easily lead to the imposition of mandatory (emergency) decompression stops, which a recreational diver is unlikely to be trained or equipped to complete with any guarantee of effectiveness.

Decompression Sickness
Decompression software, used to calculate dive times via tables or dive computers, is not an exact science. At best, it can be considered in respect of 'statistical likelihood'. Adhering to a No-Decompression Limit does not ensure invulnerability to DCS. On a given day, a given diver will be subjected to a greater, or lesser, degree of pre-cursor factors towards DCS. Likewise, NDLs can only be considered relative to the ascent that follows them. Failure to ascend at the correct speed, or perform precautionary 'safety stops' further increase risk. Divers do get bent within NDLs. Needless to say, all agencies encourage divers to plan dives conservatively; allowing a healthy buffer against their NDL. Diving below 40m/130ft virtually guarantees that no meaningful buffer can exist. You can get 'unlucky' quicker... and there is virtually zero tolerance for any mistakes.

Oxygen Toxicity
Exposure to high oxygen partial pressure (PPO2) entails the risk of oxygen toxicity (convulsions, typically leading to drowning). A healthy buffer exists between the recreational diving limit of 40m/130ft and the depth (~56m) where breathing air exceeds the advised maximum PPO2 of 1.4. However, as with DCS, risk of incident is nothing more than statistical likelihood. You are not guaranteed immune from O2 toxicity below PPO2 1.4 - other predisposing physiological factors can have an impact on susceptibility. Few recreational divers are educated to understand those predisposing factors, or calculate a prudent max PPO2 in relation to the nature of the dive they are undertaking.

CO2
Carbon Dioxide plays a key role in many of the factors already listed. The retention of CO2 is a contributing factor to narcosis and oxygen toxicity risk. CO2 levels in the lungs are fundamental to respiration control - the degradation of which is a major catalyst to stress and uncontrolled panic. CO2 retention is increasingly likely as depth increases, due to the density of gas breathed and consequent workload on the lungs. This especially true when combined with exertion, narcosis symptoms, underlying stress and/or poor regulator performance.


In my opinion, any one of these factors is sufficient reason to not venture below 40m/130ft, without undertaking the technical level training necessary to mitigate the consequent risks. When considering the relationship between these factors - and the high likelihood that multiple issues will manifest together, one being a result of the other - along with understand of the limits of training and capability provided within the recreational diving syllabus...an extremely strong basis is created for the imposition of a 40m/130ft maximum depth for recreational divers.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

Back
Top Bottom