Blue Spring - 1st post-cert cavern dives

[sylvester]

If the walls around the spring are solid, why dont you go to an REI type store and pick up a rock climbing anchor or 2 (primary and back up) and insert it in to a crack or 2, to create a solid anchor point at the depth you desire?

 

[Wendy]

If the walls around the spring are solid, why dont you go to an REI type store and pick up a rock climbing anchor or 2 (primary and back up) and insert it in to a crack or 2, to create a solid anchor point at the depth you desire?

Cuz its a state park and besides that there is a state law covering defacing caves. Its bad enough idiots carve their names into the limestone.

 

[simbrooks]

Were you and your buddy both using the same size tanks?

Both using AL80's, David's were more pumped than mine (3100 or 3000 - cant recall now - data no longer needed in my head), mine were only at 2700 on entry, so at the turn i was about 1900 (planned on 1800) and David was at his 900psi third point so we turned. If i had a full fill (thanks again LDS!!) we might have got an extra minute or two at depth (but also getting down quicker might have helped, as would knowing where our placements might have been) before needing to turn on pressure, but we were close to our agree BT, so it wouldnt have made that much difference anyway.

If the walls around the spring are solid, why dont you go to an REI type store and pick up a rock climbing anchor or 2 (primary and back up) and insert it in to a crack or 2, to create a solid anchor point at the depth you desire?

It is a state park, there is graffiti on the walls (which it was nice not to see after we got below 80 or so!!) and i dont like the idea of going in an adding more disruption, not to mention the time needed to put in some form of anchor on our limited dive time at that kind of depth. If i had used my tanks on saturday as i had been meaning too i would have had a nitrox fill and our NDL would have been ok, probably would have got a full fill as we would have used another LDS and so our dive might have been longer. I dont know the legal aspects of adding these kinds of things to a state park (i know they really only own the land up to the water level, but i still am not sure its a wise thing) or the ethics of doing so with this or other caverns. I have contemplated if this was a possibility once a while back, but it didnt cross my mind prior to this trip as i was trying to use the natural features as best i could.

 

[The Chairman]

Gee Sim...

I don't think I have seen a dive report so closely scrutinized!

 

[simbrooks]

Gee Sim...

I don't think I have seen a dive report so closely scrutinized!

I have, it was about the same kind of topic and got jettisoned into the ether a month ago or so. I know Wendy is concerned for the safety of divers going into caverns and i promise before diving (wherever that might be) i do check things and we do have plans, maybe not as intricate as some, but they cover the main topics and points of concern on said dives. I prefer not to explain every move i make in my life, how happy might i be on judgement day with that kind of attitude :11: but even so life goes on, i am on a learning curve (i hope i never quite reach the top of that one!) and things arent quite 100% as a more experienced cavern/cave diver might have them, but i am aiming to be there in all that i do. A few handy helpful bits of advice arent bad and of course calling on unsafe attitudes/practices (in the right way of course) should only improve my diving over time. I am still at the bottom of this learning curve, but each dive helps me up a little and gives me new experience in what there is to learn as well as reinforcing the idea that i have/am developing some of the skills required to do this type of diving in this type of environment.

 

[scubafool]

Simon, sorry I missed this thread last night, as I went to bed rather earlier than normal.

Firstly, many thanks for diving with me yesterday, I had a great time.

As many times as I have dove Blue Springs, I had never noticed the almost absolute lack of tie-offs/placement spots, although we both noticed several while goofing off in OW that I am sure we will be using next time. I didn't envy you your role as lead man on the way down. Holding steady against the flow while providing light/moral support was difficult enough, let alone doing your job of picking spots & placing the line there. Kudos to you for a job well done under slightly adverse conditions. And I noticed the same effect after the cave turned sideways. I noticed that even though I was breathing off of the top of my lungs at that point, I was still headed down. It took more than one shot of air through the inflator to get back to neutral.

I actually turned the dive slightly short of my 1/3rds. I felt that with all of the fun we had had with the flow on the way in, that we would be trying rather hard to keep control of ascent speeds, line tension, trying to keep from crashing into the cave wall, etc, etc on the way out, and considering this, I felt that pushing all the way to thirds might just add another issue to consider & task load us more than neccessary on the way out.

I agree that next time it would be wiser to use a tie-off closer to the cavern zone than we did, but like you, I couldn't recall anything suitable down in that area while we were at the surface, so I think we made the best call considering.

Believe me, I was doing my best to keep relatively close to you while still staying far enough ahead to stay out of your way & pull placements & wraps & to keep tension in the line the few times that you needed me to. Dang, but that was fun!

 

[simbrooks]

It was great to have you along as #2, did a fine job on the line and keeping just enough tension to make my life easier. I know the conditions werent great - although typical for that spring, but they were a nice test to see how we could handle it and i thought we did pretty well our first time out diving that spring in that manner and as a buddy team cavern diving. We could easily improve to have a more polished product, but i thought the foundation was there even if we didnt have the finer points down to an exact science, will come with time and practice though.

 

[sylvester]

Wendy, Simbrook, just to clarify the anchors I was speaking about are not permanant nor are they destructive to the enviorment they are easily removed no hammering drilling etc required.

 

[Wendy]

Wendy, Simbrook, just to clarify the anchors I was speaking about are not permanant nor are they destructive to the enviorment they are easily removed no hammering drilling etc required.

I don't see how you could run a reel thru them. But I know what you are referring to. Plus limestone can be brittle so I don't think they would work in caves.

 

[simbrooks]

How do these anchors attach then? The walls of this spring are pretty slick from the high flow that passes over them. There are grooves in the walls from what look like previous line placements as i would imagine happens to most limestone features when abraded (sp?). We used some of those as well as other nodules in the layered structure (ie layers weaker than others due to mineralisation etc) to place our line in.

BTW, when did you move to Orlando? I thought you were up north somewhere before, or have i just not noticed your location lately?? Might see you around the water.