Bone To Pick with PADI Dry Suit Cert.

[AfterDark]

There I am on the right getting ready to use only my dry suit for buoyancy control. Didn't have a BC back then.

 

[cwhitpan]

It's a little bit of a drive, but I am sure it would be worth it Jim!

 

[CompuDude]

I think the possibility of a check would occur if you wanted to rent a dry suit. I know our shop would want to have some indication that you knew what you were doing if you came in for a rental. (I don't work there, so I am not sure what they would do.)

That's been the case with every shop I know of locally that rents drysuits. Gotta have a drysuit card.

I believe ALL of them, however, offer a free DS Specialty Class with the purchase of a drysuit, so Gombessa's situation would be extremely unusual (owning a DS bought locally but no DS card).

FWIW, I use my DS to take off the squeeze and sometimes add some extra if I'm cold, but anything over that I use my BC for buoyancy.

As a photographer, however, I dive heavy so I can really plant myself when needed, so it's not unusual for me to need more gas to offset the extra lead, compared to others.

 

[SteveR1952]

What, exactly, do you mean by that?

Do you mean that your instructor decided not to issue you a certification based on how you did during the dives or that he issued you a cert but that PADI is withholding the card? The latter I would find hard to imagine unless your instructor was, for some reason, not authorized to issue the cert.

R..

It should have read "now" not 'not'. I successfully completed the course both pool and OW phases.

OK. This is what PADI really thinks:

1) for one thing, it is not a *requirement* to trim using the suit. There is no -- repeat -- NO requirement to use only the suit for buoyancy control under water. Every PADI instructor is free to teach the student to do what makes the student most comfortable and gives them the best control.
R..

Sorry, have to disagree with you here. The PADI Dry Suit Diving manual and DVD are very specific on the topic as was my instructor.
There was no confusion on this issue.

Steve .. you said .. "
Your right, depth should have made your suit much easier to handle, so, you should not need to be fighting like crazy, IF you were properly weighted, and trained to be there ....

The problem is that you missed out on a critical aspect of the class: weighting.

If you get your weighting correct, the amount of air required to prevent suit squeeze is the same amount needed to maintain neutral buoyancy, so you won't need to use your BC.

Terry

Weighting was a factor I am sure. My AOW instructor was not the same person as my DS instructor. She may have forced more weight on me than I thought I should have for the dive (first time in sw, first time with HP steel tank, first time in rough seas with gear, etc.). We discussed and adjusted off some of the weight between dives but perhaps not enough; especially at shallow depth in surge.

I might understand where the instructor is coming from Steve and why some consider using both task loading.

One of the first dry suits I had, had the shoulder vent that you either leaned your head against to depress the vent or used the opposite hand to push the button. No fancy adjustable vent.
Doing this while trying to vent the BC at times was not fun if caught in the wrong position.
Another suit I still have has a wrist vent on the left side. Both types were tricky to vent in the beginning or if you were out of position/trim.
When I first started using those two suits I found it was easier to use the suit for buoyancy than the BC or a combination of the two.

Had a student came to me with those same suits I may have considered telling them to use the DS in the beginning based on my experiences. This may be what your instructor was doing, drawing from the past.

We need to look at what the student is using, their skill level, goals and attitude and incorporate that into the course. While mine is close to the course D_B described it changes some with each class.
As an example, I know from other posts Steve has a Fusion. From the one time I used a Fusion I would not even considered using it for buoyancy.
To me it would take away from fit more so than a typical tri-lam.
For those who own one. Would you consider a Fusion a tri-lam?

SteveR1952 putting the BC/DS buoyancy issues aside did you learn anything else from the class? If so then it wasn't a total waste.
You have now found a better way to dive dry, go and play my son.

I hope to be in your neck of the woods in Dec with a DS class. Dress warm and come play with us.

I have a Fusion and did my cert. with it.
I did indeed learn from the class and from the other instructors on the dive trip who use the same suit but don't use it for buoyancy control.

PM me when you are coming down here. BTW, water temps are around 56 deg. F right now.
Thanks for the replies. My intent was to vent rather than start a heated discussion on the relative merits of different agencies. My real beef was with the DS instructor for not even mentioning the "option" of using the BCD for buoyancy except at the surface or for a suit flood.

 

[fnfalman]

Man, I would be flummoxed if I brought my drysuit onto a boat and the crew asked to see a drysuit specialty card

Or worst, asking for a PADI Boat Diving Specialty cert card. I'd be up the creek without paddles then.

 

[Diver0001]

It should have read "now" not 'not'. I successfully completed the course both pool and OW phases.

Ok, gotcha. Congratulations.

Sorry, have to disagree with you here. The PADI Dry Suit Diving manual and DVD are very specific on the topic as was my instructor.
There was no confusion on this issue.

My previous post contains a synopsis straight from the standards. I don't want to sound aggressive but there's nothing to disagree with. That's what's in the standards and those are the boundaries and recommendations given to the instructor. Those are facts not opinions.

You might be right, however, to point out that the material for the student contains other information than the material for the instructor. I'm not sure of the exact wording in the student material to be completely honest. Personally, I always handle the issue of where to put the air specifically in the lesson so regardless of what the book or video might suggest, there is no confusion as to how we'll be doing it. In my case I get my students to try different things and settle on what they like the best. We teach drysuit using trilaminate suits so they can do either... That said, it's clear that the student material shouldn't contain information that you as the instructor have to "correct".

I do believe you when you say there was no confusion on the issue during your course but to repeat myself it was your instructor's choice to teach you as she did and the agency did not force her to do that. Given that your instructor wasn't being flexible about this, if I had to guess, I'd say that she may not have been familiar with the content of the standards.

Also, I see you were wearing a fusion, so now I'm sure your instructor had you significantly overweighted, which makes drysuit diving more of a challenge than it has to be. I think you would have benefitted from more time spent on the buoyancy check and trim. There shouldn't have been any reason to have a big bubble in the suit. I would recommend to you, to do a very throrough buoyancy check the next time you dive in it and consider using some small trim weights to get your balance right. I haven't seen you in your suit but there's also a chance that it's too large if you have the right amount of weight and you still have "bubble" issues.

R..

 

[tregrrr]

Off topic, but my self control is lapsing today...

Or worst, asking for a PADI Boat Diving Specialty cert card. I'd be up the creek without paddles then.

fnf, please indicate:
the pointy end of the boat (bow)
the stubby end (stern)
the emergency exit (water)


and now, in the spirit of Put Another Dollar In, send your $$$ and worry no more!!!