BP/W: I officially don't get it

[elan]

Don,

Arguments about the relative fitness of any diver gear based on the numbers sold, of the percentages seen on the local charter, or how many are for sale on ebay all miss the point.

Factors such as availability, and the fact that most LDS's don't know much about BP&W's are far more influential than the actual fitness of the two approaches.

We know it's your life's work to convince SB that BP&W's are not the answer, but the fact remains that the vast majority of divers who have the opportunity to try a BP&W continue to use them, and prefer them over conventional BC's.

What "facts" to I have to support this bold claim? The only type of BC I sell is BP&W's and our return rate is effectively zero.

Tobin

Tobin, I cannot know exactly what are all people that become your client but as I can speak for myself when I became one of your clients that happened after I have realized that I do need the BP/W so I will take a chance saying that people who come to you may be those who know exactly what they want? So that means your will mostly get hit by only one particular group - those who want BP/W.

But I think you are right about the fact that LDS do not present the picture well when a client comes in and asks that he/she needs a buoyancy device, Being in that position just a year and a half ago I was never mentioned BP/W neither in my course nor when I walked into several LDStores including those in US and Canada. And price wise I would say they are very comparable and yours rigs I would even say cheaper than most BCDs I have seen during season time. I bought mine first BCD discounted though for 350US. If I had been given more details in the beginning I would had probably gone BP/W way in the first place.

 

[herman]

What's funny is the idea that people who are dissatisfied with their backplates and wings aren't saying anything about it, since the person who STARTED this thread did so to say he didn't see what all the fuss was about!

It's actually fairly simple. Anytime someone makes a statement about a BP/wing counter to the views of a vocal group on the board, they are quickly "corrected". It has happened to me on several occasions, always with the same responces. In the beginning I tried to hold a reasonable discussion but it always turned ugly- a pretty typical responce when a believer in anything is handed facts they do not wish to hear- so I gave up as I suspect many other have done or maybe they have better sence that I do and resist the the urge to type better...at least I made it to page 13. I have pretty much added BP/wings to my do not discuss list along with religion and politics.... now back to do not discuss mode.

 

[DanBMW]

I just can't read through all of the posts, (and won't drink the Kook-Aid) but I've got lots of dives on lots of gear and if it's set up correctly, most of the new gear works well, if you are a good diver and know how to use what you have.

I personally own a 10 year old Scuba Pro BC that won't wear out and works well for me. I use BP/W's too and like them. As soon as the BC wears out though, it will be replaced with a BP/W, simply because, for me it's better. I some scientific type diving, dive in an aquarium and rec diving and use whatever is available at the time.

What is most important to me, is the diving skill, not the gear. Good gear helps, but it won't overcome bad skills. Try what you can and go with works best for you. There are no perfect solutions.

 

[D_B]

I can't disagree with this more. A shop I respect is one that understands what I need (not necessarily what I asked for) and is happy to send me to a competitor if that way I'll get a better result. I've always behaved that way myself, and though it might cost me the odd sale that I know might have become problemmatical as it wasn't really what the customer needed, in the long run the reputation I get for integrity way outweighs that.

Incidentally, Mrs Thatcher's first name is Margaret. "Margret" is not a valid name in English.

Exactly ... It Impressed me greatly when at the LDS sale the ScubaPro rep directed me to the Oceanic rep to get gages, as I was on limited funds ... Oh , and she said these are quality gages too

BP&W ... to me the advantage of this setup over a back inflate BC is that it's probably the most configurable gear you could buy, pretty adaptable to whatever kind of diving you find yourself doing in the future

I think that the posts I've seen by Tobin about gear and choices have been very considerate of the posters planned use for them

 

[SeaHound]

Love posts like this!!! Its never-ending

I am not a tech-diver nor a wanna-bee! I am your average "pedestrian diver." I just heard all the talk on BP/Wing and got myself an oxycheq BPW set up instead of the jacket BCs I was renting in resorts. I can surely see that BPW has some very visible advantages. It gives me the tank stability I never had with all the jacket bcs I rented. It also makes me more stream lined and I feel like I am diving naked!!!

One disadvantage that I feel is that the inflator hose is small and never hangs across my shoulder. I have to reach behind my back to get it. I think one I get a longer hose that problem should go away.

Cheers,

 

[vladimir]

.....

 

[redacted]

Love posts like this!!! Its never-ending

I am not a tech-diver nor a wanna-bee! I am your average "pedestrian diver." I just heard all the talk on BP/Wing and got myself an oxycheq BPW set up instead of the jacket BCs I was renting in resorts. I can surely see that BPW has some very visible advantages. It gives me the tank stability I never had with all the jacket bcs I rented. It also makes me more stream lined and I feel like I am diving naked!!!

One disadvantage that I feel is that the inflator hose is small and never hangs across my shoulder. I have to reach behind my back to get it. I think one I get a longer hose that problem should go away.

Cheers,

I used double sided velcro tape to secure the corrugated and LPI hose to the strap right above the collar bone.

 

[halocline]

Everyone perceives things differently. To me there is a huge difference between diving with a backplate/wing/hog harness and a jacket BC. It's one of the very few gear configurations that actually does make the kind of difference in diving that the hype might suggest. That's why I'm a vocal advocate of using one. What I don't understand is the people that perceive not much difference between a BP/W and jacket getting so riled up. If they perceive not much of a difference, then what is their agenda in an argument like this? I don't think anyone has come out and said they hate diving with a backplate/wing.

While I have a strong interest in regulators, I'd be the first to admit that reg choice has very little impact on your diving experience as long as the reg you have works adequately. In arguments over regs, I do believe that the differences are mostly hype; that's why I'm always amazed at what people will spend on a regulator. Same with computer choices, to me it just does not make much difference. Exposure suit makes a huge difference, but that's entirely about fit and the appropriate level of thermal protection for the environment you're in.

But I've seen several fairly new divers (and some not-so-new ones) be almost transformed on their first dive with a BP/W. I've never met anyone who has tried one and hated it. I'm sure those people are out there, so let's hear from them.

 

[SeaHound]

I used double sided velcro tape to secure the corrugated and LPI hose to the strap right above the collar bone.

Makes sense! I will be sure to try that. Thanks!

 

[jlovold]

Love posts like this!!! Its never-ending

I am not a tech-diver nor a wanna-bee! I am your average "pedestrian diver." I just heard all the talk on BP/Wing and got myself an oxycheq BPW set up instead of the jacket BCs I was renting in resorts. I can surely see that BPW has some very visible advantages. It gives me the tank stability I never had with all the jacket bcs I rented. It also makes me more stream lined and I feel like I am diving naked!!!

One disadvantage that I feel is that the inflator hose is small and never hangs across my shoulder. I have to reach behind my back to get it. I think one I get a longer hose that problem should go away.

Cheers,

You could always use a few pieces of rubber-bands and put two on your left shoulderstrap, and route the LP-hose trough them, while attaching the LP-hose through two more that you also route the inflator-hose through...

It will make it more complicated to vent air from the inflator hose, but, you should only do that when you are vertical in the water anyway... When you are horizontal, you dump air from the pull-dump by your left hip... It may require some practice, but you will get the hang of it very quickly... Just remember to pull the cord towards the surface!