BP/W & Long Hose In a PADI IE Exam

[tursiops]

Good discussion. I see teaching in a BP/W/Long hose as a combination shop/instructor choice...both have to agree! How to learn to do it? The same way you learn to do most things in the instructional world: intern with someone good at it, take some training from the training-director for the shop, practice a lot.

I do not see such teaching as an additional certification of any kind.....we already evolve in the equipment we use or learn to teach about for example computers, integrated weights and "AIR 2," and we evolve in the content of the teaching, for example buoyancy and loose tank straps.

 

[victorzamora]

One of the skill is weight belt removal and replacement underwater. In a Hog rig, the crotch strap gets in the way and is an added step that your Jacket BC simulated "students" don't have

I haven't gone through an IDC, and I no longer plan to.... but I was practicing for my IDC and I prepped in a BPW. The solution here is just to wear your weight belt over your crotch strap.

 

[rivers]

While I haven't done my IE, I did wear a BP/W with OPH while doing my entire DM course, including the skill demo (and scored 4-5 across the board). You take off and put on a bp/w the same way you do a jacket. The only difference is a jacket may have straps that you can loosen/tighten. For that portion, I just signaled "Remember loosen/tighten shoulder straps". I still demo in a bp/w to OW students, and they seem to get that even though i don't have shoulder strap adjustments to make, they do and remember to them. If a group of want to be instructors can't grasp that concept, should they be instructing? When it comes to regs, I just use the shop pool regs as I only own a twinset and I'm not bringing it into a pool (it does get used in open water).
For the rescue scenario of my DM when I was the victim, it was taken off as normal. But it was also done in a pool, and my harness is sized for my drysuit, so it was a bit easier. But it was explained that had it been a real rescue situation, cutting me out would be a better idea (and my knife/shears are here).

 

[lemke]

Have you done an IE? If not, you are missing the point here....it is not all about you, the diver. If you HAVE done an IE, you are still missing the point....

What is the point here?

 

[Divetech99]

Agree Dan. Would be great if PADI adds a new specialty for BP/W skills. Not sure but I think they already have one for side mounts. To PADI's credit, they're agnostic and neutral on gear selection. Perhaps they can make a slight change to the IE process and group candidates according to Jacket BC and HOG rigs. So all Hog rig candidates can demo the assigned skill in their hog rigs. Additionally, have an IE staff on a hog rig to act as student if only one IE candidate comes in a Hog rig.

 

[RJP]

While I haven't done my IE...

If a group of want to be instructors can't grasp that concept, should they be instructing?

If and when you do your IE - and understand how it is structured - you'll better understand that it's not about what "would be instructors" can and can't grasp. You'll also understand why it might be in YOUR best interests during the IE to not risk being the only one configured in BP/W.

Trust me... no one is a bigger BP/W fan that I am. I dive in it. I teach in it. I advocate it. I even asked the same question as the OP when I was prepping for my IE. I received and followed the well-considered advice of the many people who suggested going with a standard recreational set up based on IE-specific rationale.

If someone's primary reason for wanting to do their IE in a full DIR rig is to "prove a point" to someone (The examiner? The other candidates? Themselves? PADI? The world?) by doing their IE in a full DIR rig... they should go ahead and do so.

If someone's primary reason for wanting to do their IE in a full DIR rig is because they intend to teach that way... they should ask themselves whether the potential hassle-factor is worth any potential trouble since there is no UPSIDE to doing the IE in full DIR rig.

If you successfully complete the IE in a recreational rig... you can teach in full DIR gear if you like.

---------- Post added February 9th, 2015 at 12:41 PM ----------

Agree Dan. Would be great if PADI adds a new specialty for BP/W skills.

What magical skills do you think should be included in such a class that would require a specialty course?

As mentioned further above, we put all our OW students in BP/W. From 10yr old Girl Scouts to 25yr old marines to 45yr old dads to 70yr old grandmas. There's nothing special about it.

---------- Post added February 9th, 2015 at 12:46 PM ----------

An experienced diver, and consequently, a good instructor, should be able to don ANY backplate/wing, BC, horsecollar, reg hose setup, alum/steel cylinder, etc. and be comfortable in the water. If not, see the first three words of the first sentence.

Have you done an IE? If not, you are missing the point here....it is not all about you, the diver. If you HAVE done an IE, you are still missing the point....

I read it that lemke was telling the OP that HE should be able to dive in whatever... including a recreational rig.

 

[tursiops]

What is the point here?

Well, you said: "An experienced diver, and consequently, a good instructor, should be able to don ANY backplate/wing, BC, horsecollar, reg hose setup, alum/steel cylinder, etc. and be comfortable in the water. If not, see the first three words of the first sentence."
You are talking about whether the diver/instructor is able to don certain gear and be comfortable in the water.
But the discussion is about taking the IE, during which the comfort of the entire group being examined is critical, because they are your "students" and you are one of theirs. So it is not just about you, the diver/instructor-candidate....

If however you are OT and talking about post-IE and diving/instructing in real life, then I partially agree with you. Not everybody has experience with all kinds of gear, nor do they need to. It is nice if they do, but does an instructor at a resort in the Caribbean need to have experience with (say) drysuits, heavy steel tanks and sisal uplines?

 

[danvolker]

What magical skills do you think should be included in such a class that would require a specialty course?

As mentioned further above, we put all our OW students in BP/W. From 10yr old Girl Scouts to 25yr old marines to 45yr old dads to 70yr old grandmas. There's nothing special about it.

This could be the 64 million dollar question
I would try to answer, by suggesting that there are 3 kinds of Magic that need to be included in the bp/wing specialty course...

• Easy Magic, which is the skillfulness in rescue of the bp/wing diver, and other easy but DIFFERENT skills, like air share with long hose and necklace reg.
• Practical Magic, where the Instructor is able to configure the bp/wing for the student, to a basic or rough fitting that allows the student to reach a basic level of trim and comfort with the bp/wing---Significant here, is that a large number of 1st time purchasers of bp/wing set ups, have no idea of how to get to even a rough set up--and many set themselves up very badly if not helped. In contrast, a traditional PADI instructor is expected to see a new student come in to his class, with the student putting the hoses in all the wrong places on the jacket BC, horribly mis-configured, and it is expected that the Instructor will consider it their job to get the student properly configured with this jacket or other traditional style BC. Again, a majority of these same instructors will not even know where to start, in how to correct a poorly configured bp/wing set up.
• Advanced Magic.... If you ever watched or went through a GUE Fundamentals class, one of THE MOST IMPORTANT skills exhibited by the GUE Instructor, is the high level skill in perfectly tweaking the custom fit of the BP/wing to each student...The result of this, is a rig so well balanced, that the diver can completely relax, almost go to sleep, and their body will hang flat horizontal without rotating on any axis, and with the diver not needing to kick constantly to stabilize. While a PADI Peak Control Buoyancy class is really an awesome development for PADI instructors to embrace, without the advanced and "magical skills" in being able to see a mis-configured bp/wing on a student-and quickly being able to perfect it---any hope for really getting the student to achieve perfection in trim and buoyancy---is unrealistic. I will suggest a traditional Instructor-- only familiar with Jacket style BC's, would be hopelessly challenged to come any where close to getting the bp/wing student anywhere near optimal in configuration.

***P.S. to Tursiops
I am talking about OW1 classes....training of a non-diver, to become an OW1 diver, which has them geared up in Bp/wing set ups, as this is the Gear Choice of the Dive Shop the student chose to get certified in ( as in my earlier example of a business model of a shop selling 3 or 4 lines of Bp/wing mfgs to a primarily Recreational Diver base...and NOT expecting more than a tiny percentage to go on to tech or cave).

 

[tursiops]

All three bullet-points are addressed in most agency's Intro to Tec courses....part of the philosophy of doling out the info so that people are not overloaded.

 

[RJP]

All three bullet-points are addressed in most agency's Intro to Tec courses....part of the philosophy of doling out the info so that people are not overloaded.

Or in some shops/instructors OW courses... but we keep swerving out of the "IE in BP/W" topic.