BP/W & Long Hose In a PADI IE Exam

[Peter Guy]

Absolutely fascinating thread and for oh so many reasons.

a. Pray tell, just what is "standard BCD" in the scuba industry? Does "standard" mean a jacket/wrap around style BCD -- or does it include a non-modular back-inflate BCD?

b. Does "standard" in warm water mean something different in cold water areas?

c. As far as I know, there is NO requirement to remove/replace a "weight belt" within the PADI system. The requirement is to remove/replace a "weight system" which could well mean the BCD with integrated weights, a weight belt or a weight harness.

d. "My CD's" shop has as the "standard" primary donate and inline octo on ALL of its BCDs for its students -- does that mean anyone coming out of that shop should use a different donation system? Also, if even 30% of rigs are sold with inline octos, and YOU are given the task of demonstrating donation in the IE, shouldn't you demonstrate both secondary donate and primary donate -- regardless of which system you are using? Or, let's just assume you have an inline octo (or necklaces secondary) and were tasked with that demonstration, wouldn't it be simple to demonstrate both by merely putting your secondary in your mouth, putting your "primary" by your side and THEN doing the demonstration so that the students see both? (Note -- I was on a boat a few days ago and talking with a diver who had an inline octo. I was shocked to find out he thought he was SUPPOSED to donate his inline octo and when I explained how it was done, he said, that makes so much more sense. How many of you secondary donate instructors actually demonstrate BOTH primary and secondary donate?)

e. Again, it's been 6 years since I did my IE but I did it in my own gear -- back inflate BCD (Seaquest Balance which is still my pool gear) with inline octo (AirSource) -- integrated weights and GUESS WHAT warm water peeps, a DRY SUIT!! (Yes, EVERYONE in the IE wore dry suits -- what is this "standard thing" to which you keep referring?). I really don't remember what I was asked to demo but I know it wouldn't have made a difference because I would have been able to discuss and demonstrate both primary and secondary donate.

For what it's worth, I've only watched/participated in one IE (my own) but I've had many talks with PADI HQ in California about BCDs/BP/Wings. I'm constantly reminded by each and everyone of the Educational Consultants (all are CDs as far as I know) that a BP/W is merely a BCD and absolutely no issue in ANY PADI class.

OP -- IF you are comfortable in your BP/W -- use it, including the crotch strap. IF you use a weight belt, just put it on last because, unlike in a technical dive when you really do not want your weight belt to come off, ever, on a recreational dive you might -- so it SHOULD go on last.

Most of all, have fun with your IE and remember the Examiner WANTS you to pass.

 

[Pavao]

I dissagree that a DIR BP/W rig is easier to remove in a rescue demonstration, which you will HAVE to do it completely on the IE, and if I remember correctly, this exercise is a part of the IE you cannot fail, so, if you were my assigned "victim" during the exercise, you'd best be ok with me slicing your harness to pieces with my trilobite, because you have to remove the gear completely on the demonstration, and for anyone who has tried passing the victims arms through the shoulder straps knows this is pretty damn hard.

The first time I and my buddy tried this on a GUE class, we all (including both instructors) struggled with it, and we all agreed that in a real scenario we wouldn't even think twice before cutting the harness. It is doable when the "victim" is just playing unconscious and voluntarily helps you and wedges his own elbow out, but ask your buddy to be truly numb and try it, see how well you'll do

There are parts of the exam, where the examiner will ask the "students" you are working with to deliberately do something wrong, to test you and see if you are attentive to what they are doing and see if you catch it and properly respond to it, I don't think this happens during the rescue exercise, but the point is, the examiner might not be so keen on you getting help from the victim, like helping his arm out of the harness.

Keep in mind, the entire in water part of the IE isn't about how well you can do it, it's about how well you can demonstrate it, clean, precise and slow movements, everything you're doing, is as if you were demonstrating it to a class, that's what you'll be grated on.

Oh btw, the rescue demonstration is the last thing on the IE, and harness is pretty cheap, so not the end of the world

 

[KevinNM]

Oh btw, the rescue demonstration is the last thing on the IE, and harness is pretty cheap, so not the end of the world

$25 from EE for a new Halcyon webbing set IIRC.

 

[Pavao]

$25 from EE for a new Halcyon webbing set IIRC.

Yep, thats 1 option.

Thanks for looking it up.

 

[RJP]

Oh btw, the rescue demonstration is the last thing on the IE, and harness is pretty cheap, so not the end of the world

Perhaps on yours. It was the first thing we did on Day 2 during my IE.

And if you ended up being a "victim" first and cut out of your gear... you'd have a tough time being the rescuer.

That said... I have no doubt I could get someone out of a properly fitted one-piece harness with a good kick and no need to cut it.

 

[danvolker]

I suppose you could make up a PADI Harness for a Halcyon, or other bp/wing one piece model---and with this PADI version, it would have a Quick Release buckle on the shoulder strap some place easy to get to and not uncomfortable...But it would be ONLY for the IDC and IE.

I actually have a Dive Rite Transplate harness and backplate, an extra piece of quality gear I am about to give to a friend of mine that is a PADI Instructor ( well on his way to getting to be a CD)....and this has release buckles on the shoulder harness already--so the Dive Rite system might be a good, ready made solution to the IE.

 

[Pavao]

I suppose you could make up a PADI Harness for a Halcyon, or other bp/wing one piece model---and with this PADI version, it would have a Quick Release buckle on the shoulder strap some place easy to get to and not uncomfortable...But it would be ONLY for the IDC and IE.

Either that, or...

So while I can do the IE in a jacket BC,

There is your answer right there.

You are taking the IE to pass the IE, that is it's only function, so, fully deflate your BCD and plant your knees firmly on the bottom, pass the IE, after that, go teach "DIR".

I still think the answer to THIS thread was given by the OP himself on the very first post.

 

[danvolker]

Either that, or...





I still think the answer to THIS thread was given by the OP himself on the very first post.

I would have a moral/religious issue, that would prevent me from kneeling on the bottom to do skills.

In all fairness, when I did my PADI Rescue course, the instructor insisted on my using a stab jacket...and I needed the Rescue course to get to DM, and then ultimately for my crossover so I could have an instructor cert I could take Tooka divers out with....and....I decided the use of the stab jacket, though horrific, would not kill me The class was so easy, use of the Bp/wing would have been easy, but the instructor was having a coniption fit....and this was not about any skills I would be passing on....Just stuff I had already known for 20 years or more, but had to gain a cert showing I was current with this.

The worst thing about the stab jacket, was how much it slowed me down in the water with all it's drag ( compared to the Halcyon 18 pound wing). I felt like I wAS DRAGGING a boat around. There was no more kick and glide....Trim and buoyancy were still easy to do with the stab, so I cant rant about that part

 

[RJP]

I would have a moral/religious issue, that would prevent me from kneeling on the bottom to do skills.

In all fairness, when I did my PADI Rescue course, the instructor insisted on my using a stab jacket...and I needed the Rescue course to get to DM, and then ultimately for my crossover so I could have an instructor cert I could take Tooka divers out with....and....I decided the use of the stab jacket, though horrific, would not kill me The class was so easy, use of the Bp/wing would have been easy, but the instructor was having a coniption fit....and this was not about any skills I would be passing on....Just stuff I had already known for 20 years or more, but had to gain a cert showing I was current with this.

The worst thing about the stab jacket, was how much it slowed me down in the water with all it's drag ( compared to the Halcyon 18 pound wing). I felt like I wAS DRAGGING a boat around. There was no more kick and glide....Trim and buoyancy were still easy to do with the stab, so I cant rant about that part

I went the other way in my rescue class. Being a "train the way you dive, dive the way you train" kinda guy I did my rescue class in a drysuit and steel doubles as did one of the other divers. We figured if we ever needed to effect a rescue there would't be time to go back to shore and swap our gear - or the victim's - for a jacket-style BCD and an AL80.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

This is where I have a real issue with the system as you all are describing it. Not the BPW system but the IDC/IE system. Why are you ok with doing something, in gear you normally do not use, just to pass an exam? If you are going to teach in BPW's then take the exam in them. Make the examiners use their brains a little and figure out how to make your gear work. You will be teaching in it not in jacket.

I did my YMCA OW portion of the instructor exam in my BPW and a drysuit. Everyone was in dry suits except for one or two people in a 7 mil and they were just playing as students. It was cold, rainy, and vis was around 10-15 feet. No problem. We had been doing our instructor development for the past 6 months in the same conditions more or less. at least when there was no ice on the water. The pool evaluations were done in whatever gear you had. There was no "standard" set up because frankly from my point of view to a skilled and qualified instructor, it's all standard. Except maybe rebreathers.

The demo of skills was supposed to be smooth and fluid. Speed was not emphasized to be slow as seen in some of the sillier you tube videos. Slow mask clearing as seen in those actually makes the skill harder than it is. The 5th Dx videos are how I demo it and have yet to have a student complain that it's too fast to see clearly.

Maybe it's not your fault that the CD is not ok with someone in a BPW. Maybe the fault is that the CD could use a refresher or two themselves?