BP/W questions

[Mitchell Teeters]

1'' crotch strap = fanny floss. Enjoy your giant strides with that one!

Funny but not necessarily true, I use a 1.25" rifle sling (.25" isn't worth arguing over) with no issues. In fact I prefer that over a wide strap that will chafe and possibly damage my Dry Suit.

Mitch

 

[rjack321]

What does it mean to you when using the term, balanced rig. Is that balanced in the way it helps you achieve proper trim, or balanced as far as over all weight and wing lift, or...?

A balanced rig has NOTHING to do with either the backplate, the wing, or trim. Its principally driven by the type of tank(s) you are using, your exposure protection, and to a lessor extent the amount of ditchable lead you have.

I could do lots of math but that probably won't conveny the key parts...
Instead here's some descriptions of an unbalanced rig

unbalanced:
3mm neoprene vest
7mm 2 piece wetsuit
double hp130s
5lb lead V-weight

At depth the wetsuit will be so smushed that in the event of a wing failure you can't ditch enough lead to swim up.

Balanced:
Switch the double 130s for double al80s and an a80 stage, take off the lead and its balanced since you can ditch the stage and swim up a smushed wetsuit in the event of a wing failure.
Or if diving the 130s, switch from the wetsuit to a drysuit and you have redundant bouyancy to help you swim up in the case of a wing failure.

Diving a single lp85 like you have, its hard to have an unbalanced rig unless you take all the lead in your wetbelt and put it on your BP.

The key question defining balanced vs unbalanced rig (which applies to any BC) is "can I swim this up from depth in the event of a BC failure?" As you can see, this is mostly a big tanks + thick wetsuit at depth kind of issue.

 

[Peter_C]

Lots of great advice above.

Something else to think about is stainless vs aluminum. For single tanks I dive a stainless back plate with extra lead, and for doubles I get head heavy with HP100's, so I have an aluminum plate. Plus for singles nothing is as comfortable as my Freedom Plate carrying an HP130.

Buying a package is usually the cheapest from what I have seen. (Unless buying used gear). Bummer you missed the Black Friday sales.

 

[Keith.M]

Thank you all for some really great advice.

I can also see from much of the advice that many things are personal preference. sex bolts/wing nuts, serrated tri-glides/non-serrated, use them or not at the shoulder to waist strap transition, etc...

Suggestion on using the GUI/DIR web sites for information. Yes, already do that. In fact, there was one set of pictures that I looked at from a link that was posted here. However I failed to bookmark it have not been able to find that one again at this point. I am pretty sure it was off of the gui.org site but have not found a way back to that set of pictures. If anyone knows that link, that would be great. It was a whole set of different angles with a guy that had kind of dirty blond color hair, glasses and was in a blue dry suit.

So in the mean time, I am moving forward with this project. I do understand I may have missed some deals on the black friday, like a 32 lb HOG wing for 199, but I was never wanting to buy a pre made harness. Wanted to use this as a learning and familiarization exersize.

One thing I did see posted in the past, I think it was Peter_C, that you should pay attention to the different set-ups before you buy your own gear as you may find yourself buying things twice! Hey, I resemble that remark!

So to get started, I have ordered the basics. Pretty much everything except the wing right now. I went ahead and ordered enough of both serrated and non-serrated tri-glides so I can mess with both of the types. Someone had also mentioned burning a hole in the harness to accomodate the top hole in the plate. I have seen that. I am planning to use the die that is with my grommet tool to cut the hole, then have a lighters flame go through the hole to singe up the cut before installing a grommet.

Qty Description Item $ Each Subtotal
------------------------------------------------------------------------
20 Nylon Webbing, {2 in | 5.1 cm} wide, price per {1 ft | 30.5 cm}DX-201020 $0.69 $13.80
5 D-Ring, {2 in | 5.1 cm} S/S {3/16 in | 0.5 cm} diameter stock, standardDX-60242 $0.60 $3.00
2 D-Ring w/45 Degree Bend {2 in | 5.1 cm} S/SDX-60243 $0.75 $1.50
5 Belt Slide, {2 in | 5.1 cm} S/S SerratedDX-60566 $0.40 $2.00
5 Belt Slide, {2 in | 5.1 cm} S/S DR-HW1020-2 $0.85 $4.25
1 S/S Quick-Release Buckle, Heavy Duty, {2 in | 5.1 cm}DX-60401 $6.94 $6.94
1 Backplate, style 'DR', Stainless SteelDX-203020 $75.00 $75.00
2 Tank Strap, Standard w/SS Cam Buckle DX-205036 $19.00 $38.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subtotal $144.49
Shipping: FREE Super Saver (Continental US) $0.00
Tax $0.00
Grand Total $144.49


So I think that minus the cam bands at 38 bucks, 106 for the harness and a stainless steel backplate is a pretty decent price.

 

[lowviz]

Peter_C gives good advice. I would suggest that you start with the most basic North Florida rig that you can buy. Dive it for a long while and then make your own customizations.

My observations: I don't like triglides, they slip too. I want my rig set and stable, rock stable. Pulling too hard on one waist strap or the other will just set your tank(s) off-center. Blows stability and balance away. Simple solution in pic below.

Chest straps suck. Tits on a boar hog. Crotch strap necessary for reproducability. 2" wide, my preference.

A BP for singles and a wetsuit will undoubtedly be aluminum for a balanced rig. So why compromise the design of a 10# SS backplate with STA's or CamBand slots? You will NEED two BP's, most probably one 2# aluminum and a ten pound SS. Why burn holes in your webbing? Answer: so you can mount a single tank. So why burn holes in your webbing on a 10# SS plate??? Forget the slots and just cross the webbing below the adjustment holes if you are only diving doubles.

Why don't the straps fit the angle of one's shoulders??? -about 8 degrees outward? Take your index finger and middle finger, reach behind you, and touch your spine as far down as you can. This should be about where the top of the BP sits. A slight outward bend at the hips will keep it from digging into you when the boat is bouncing.

Edd Sorenson promotes a really nice way of slinging bottles, sling off of a tail piece. Works for me, and I added a center loop for extra reels, again, see pic. I dive cold water by choice. Notice big, stationary D-rings for coldwater gloves. OK, maybe One too many D rings, live with it, my goodie bag full of mussels goes there...

Suggestion: Buy a simple, standard, no frills North Florida BP and dive it until you know how your want it modified.

And Pete is right:

...//... you'll never get it right the first, second or even third time. If you're like the majority of bp divers, you'll be trying out many different variations on your kit. Some will become permanent, some will be a source of embarrassment until you get them off (and quickly). Have fun. Think outside the box. Dive safely.

Very well stated.

 

[Peter_C]

I would suggest that you start with the most basic North Florida rig that you can buy. Dive it for a long while and then make your own customizations.

Florida? He is a local California cold water diver. Then again I generally bring my stainless plate when traveling. The thinner my exposure protection the more I like my Freedom Plate. (Although I am probably bringing my AL doubles plate and drysuit this Christmas to Florida for hopefully some wreck diving.)

If anyone knows that link, that would be great. It was a whole set of different angles with a guy that had kind of dirty blond color hair, glasses and was in a blue dry suit.

Sometimes you need to look closer to home. That was posted on BAUE Bay Area Underwater Explorers. They host a wealth of information on their website, especially for fish and invert identification.
Equipment Images

One thing I did see posted in the past, I think it was Peter_C, that you should pay attention to the different set-ups before you buy your own gear as you may find yourself buying things twice! Hey, I resemble that remark!

Yeah that would be me. I am right there with ya!

Someone had also mentioned burning a hole in the harness to accommodate the top hole in the plate. I have seen that. I am planning to use the die that is with my grommet tool to cut the hole, then have a lighters flame go through the hole to singe up the cut before installing a grommet.

If you do a grommet use a stainless one if possible. Personally I don't have one on my Dive Rite plate, but it is not a critical piece of equipment.

20 Nylon Webbing, {2 in | 5.1 cm} wide, price per {1 ft | 30.5 cm}DX-201020 $0.69 $13.80

You will probably only need around 12 feet, so the extra can make weight belts.

5 D-Ring, {2 in | 5.1 cm} S/S {3/16 in | 0.5 cm} diameter stock, standardDX-60242 $0.60 $3.00
2 D-Ring w/45 Degree Bend {2 in | 5.1 cm} S/SDX-60243 $0.75 $1.50

FWIW you can always bend D-rings in a vise. I like them fixed myself so welded is even better.

5 Belt Slide, {2 in | 5.1 cm} S/S SerratedDX-60566 $0.40 $2.00
5 Belt Slide, {2 in | 5.1 cm} S/S DR-HW1020-2 $0.85 $4.25

I have also found the plastic weight keeper that lock on to work great for holding can lights etc. in place forward so the canister doesn't slide back as far. http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/at...weight-belt-pocket-holding-clip11652-4692.jpg

1 S/S Quick-Release Buckle, Heavy Duty, {2 in | 5.1 cm}DX-60401 $6.94 $6.94

When you get a can light you will want a second one, to hold the light canister in place on the right side of the harness.

FWIW these are the buckles I like for the waist belt.
Scuba Weight Belt Buckle Heavy Duty Commercial Diving Diver Stainless Steel | eBay

1 Backplate, style 'DR', Stainless SteelDX-203020 $75.00 $75.00

I had one of the those and sold it only because it didn't work for me when diving doubles. Now I have the same thing in an aluminum version. Works just fine.

2 Tank Strap, Standard w/SS Cam Buckle DX-205036 $19.00 $38.00

I too like the stainless cam bands to add every bit of weight possible.

Also I didn't see any soft 2" webbing mentioned for building the crotch strap? You definitely want something soft between your legs while diving...Sewing a crotch strap in the softer material is actually quite easy. Just use a polyester thread and around a number 14 needle. The needles for sewing metal thread have a bigger hole and therefore tend to not cut the thread as much. Don't be afraid to sew a few lines back and forth. They have reverse for a reason. If you do plan to sew it send me a PM and I can send you a close up picture if a google search doesn't produce a clear image.

 

[lowviz]

And now the pic that I forgot to include. I had Fred Tagge custom laser cut and bend this, ended up exactly 10 pounds, just like the calcs said. The narrow slots are bending strain eliminators, they keep the rib flat.

 

[Keith.M]

Nice post, so... Where are the pics?

What is a simple, standard, no frills North Florida BP?

SS backplate here is 5 lbs. Going to try this first without an STA.

Current configuration with 7 mil wet suit and the excursion 2 BC I use 28 lbs. I think having the SS backplate will be better than the aluminium one. But I will not be surprised to have one in my gear in the future.

---------- Post added December 7th, 2012 at 06:13 PM ----------

There they are, thanks!

 

[Peter_C]

What are you doing for a knife holster and knife? The one pictured below actually works really well, and if lost or broken...*shrugs* is really cheap. Much harder to sew though, as it takes a decent amount of punch and a number 18 needle would probably be best.

 

[lowviz]

Find out how much weight it takes to sink you in mask, fin, and exposure suit.

Weigh your rig with tank at 500 psi underwater with a fish scale and your bc/wing completely deflated.

The difference should be about four to eight pounds negative. Add weight to W/B to get to this number. (Choose the BP weight so you have a reasonable W/B.) This is how I do it, others do it differently...