BP/W with one piece harness NOT for everyone

[Dogbowl]

Scubaboard is extremely biased FOR the BP/W with one piece harness. I have done a lot of reading on this site and understand the pros of this setup and the cons of jacket-style and other bcds. However, as a newbie, I bought into the notion that BP/W with one piece harness was the ONLY way to go. I was dead set on buying myself a Halcyon Infinity. I am glad I did not. After having dived it with my husband (my husband on 3 dives, me on 1), we realized that it was DEFINITELY not for him, and for me, it might be a good option but not necessarily the BEST option FOR ME at this point in my diving. I am writing this for other newbies to give them an alternative view on the matter.

The reason that the BP/W with one piece harness is not the right set-up for my husband is because of physicality. He is very slim, and has very sloping shoulders. When he has the Halcyon Infinity on, with a stainless steel backplate, STA, weights and tank, the straps literally slip off his shoulders. If he pulls it really tight, the straps really hurt him and if he loosens it, well, it slips right off again. Nothing we did could remedy the situation.

For me, I'm not so slim and my shoulders are pretty much horizontal, so I did not have the slippage problem that he had, but the weight of the gear made the straps dig into my flesh and left marks, especially where the straps went under my arms.

Now, I'm looking at either the Dive Rite Transpac XT or the Transplate for both of us. While I still think the BP/W with one-piece harness has its benefits, for us, I think we would be much more comfortable in the Transpac or the Transplate, where there is a chest strap (prevents the slippage problem) as well as quick release buckles. Most of the boat diving that we've done ended with us taking off our dive belts, fins and bcds in the water and handing it to the captain onboard before we ourselves got back on the boat. I can't imagine being able to do that easily and comfortably without quick release buckles, especially if the water is choppy. Secretly, I have not completely ruled out the Halcyon Traveler yet...the way they have the weights attached to the backplate really calls to me.

While perusing Scubaboard for opinions on the Transplate, I found this (below), which was very comforting that we weren't the only ones who had trouble with the BP/W and one-piece harness:

-2 :shocked2: Now were back to zero

I've started with the one piece and hate it. I admit I hate it more on the surface than under water, but I still hate it there too. Too loose in the shoulders, tighten the crotch some more. Voice pitch goes up, loosen crotch and shoulders fall off. Then tighten waist more, crotch more, etc. While there is a sweet spot and I've only done 4 pool sessions now with it, the shoulder restrictions and neck/shoulder pain are enough to say enough. I have a permanent neck and shoulder injury, so YMMV.

The straps cut across my shoulder at the arm pit restricting movement of my arm across my body such as when reaching for the exhaust valve on my DS. Crossing the straps behind my neck caused major pain in my neck but did keep the straps on my shoulders.

When I pull the two shoulder D-Rings together mimicking the Transplate style the pressure is relieved and it feels very good.

I would have to try it out in the pool with a clip between the D-Rings to see if this is a good solution, but I think for me either the Hollis Elite 2 or the DiveRite Transplate will be the ultimate solution.

Using the logic posted above about where the product was made corresponding to local dive conditions, the Hollis would be the choice since they are made in my neighborhood.

 

[tbone1004]

one of the common solutions to that is to cross the shoulder straps behind the diver. This will stop that from happening. Very common solution, though only possible if you are tall enough that they can cross easily. The last thing you want to do is tighten the shoulder straps because it will make everything sit funny and be very uncomfortable. It is also possible that if you are using pool rigs, that the webbing is starting to break down and not hold it's shape like it is supposed to.

I used to sit in your boat because I couldn't find a plate that fit properly, the long pattern DSS plates changed that for me and I'm now able to dive a 1 piece harness with no issues *my arms would go to sleep almost immediately after standing up because the angles were all wrong*. There are always exceptions to the rule.

Now, the QR's are not necessary as the chest strap makes the shoulder straps that much bigger, so as you undo the chest strap after undoing the waist strap, the lift on the wing will pull the rig clean off of you quite quickly with almost no effort. Raise your arms up and you will slide right now. Quite effective.

While I used to have a transplate harness, and I currently have 2 transpacs *1 for sidemount, 1 as normal*, I think you would be much better served with the Deluxe Harness from Dive Rite instead of the Transplate. I have one of these on my Razor sidemount rig for the chest strap, and have also used them with great success on backplates. Again, the QR is an option but I don't think it is a necessary one, and the Deluxe harness is much more simple than the transplate.

If you are dead set on the Transplate, which is fine, then I would buy the bp/w that you want, and order the Transplate from here. This is a link to one specific one, but he has a couple different sizes in blue and red *remember they are all identical except for the length of the shoulder pads
XL - Dive Rite Transplate Harness - Blue -XL

 

[sea_ledford]

It does sound like adding a chest strap would be helpful for your husband. I have a Dive Rite harness with the chest clip and I don't ever use it... to each his/her own. DR does sell a harness with the chest strap and without the quick releases too, which I would recommend. I have had one on my divers have a regular plastic QR buckle (the one that came with the harness from DR) come undone as she was climbing the ladder out of the water. It happened multiple times and I could see no damage to the buckle after the fact, it just didn't seem to be strong enough. She was wearing double aluminum 80's at the time.

If you are dead set on a QR, you might want to look at a cobra buckle. They can be plastic or metal and are much stronger than a standard QR. ScubaForce sells harnesses with cobra QRs (not sure they have the chest strap though), or you can just buy them else where. I've usually seen them at tactical oriented sites like MilspecMonkey. You'll want the 2" version with one side or the other being adjustable.

-Chris

 

[Dave Bevan]

Which way did you have the straps going?

 

[C Dub]

The weight of the rig should be carried by the belt around your waist, not the shoulder straps. Shoulder straps should only be tight enough to stay on your shoulders, and not carry any weight.

You need to adjust your rig properly and even better yet find a local mentor to help you with adjusting the BP/W's properly.

 

[2airishuman]

Well, I agree that people's body shapes do differ. And I agree that BP&Ws are perhaps advocated for here more heavily than anywhere else.

Did you have someone who is experienced with a BP&W help you set them up? Though not strictly necessary, it can be helpful in getting the strap lengths and ring positions correct.

In the water, the harness should mainly be held in place by the waist and crotch straps. On shore, some of the weight will transfer to the shoulder straps, but ideally there should still be a good deal of weight carried by the waist strap.

Did your husband consider adding a sternum strap? You don't have to switch to a transpac to do that.

http://www.leisurepro.com/p-xsssst/highland-by-xs-scuba-sternum-strap

For you, there should be enough slack in the shoulders to make it easy to get out of the rig in the water. From what you describe, they may be too tight.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

A few years ago I would have argued with the OP on this. Now, after having set up a number of custom harnesses for students and customers I agree. I have revised my BPW article for my new book to reflect this. Some people are just not built for a standard one piece harness. I make custom plates to allow divers to convert their one piece under the arms harness to an "H" configuration similar to some sidemount rigs out there.
When HOG asked me to help with their new comfort harness I made hardware prototypes and had input on the overall design. It came out really nice and I enjoy diving it.
Below is a picture of it with the new softpack but it can also be used on a standard plate. As seen below with a 23 or 32lb wing and set of weight pockets it's under 450 MAP.

 

[divad]

Scubaboard is extremely biased FOR the BP/W with one piece harness. I have done a lot of reading on this site and understand the pros of this setup and the cons of jacket-style and other bcds. However, as a newbie, I bought into the notion that BP/W with one piece harness was the ONLY way to go. I was dead set on buying myself a Halcyon Infinity. I am glad I did not. After having dived it with my husband (my husband on 3 dives, me on 1), we realized that it was DEFINITELY not for him, and for me, it might be a good option but not necessarily the BEST option FOR ME at this point in my diving. I am writing this for other newbies to give them an alternative view on the matter.

The reason that the BP/W with one piece harness is not the right set-up for my husband is because of physicality. He is very slim, and has very sloping shoulders. When he has the Halcyon Infinity on, with a stainless steel backplate, STA, weights and tank, the straps literally slip off his shoulders. If he pulls it really tight, the straps really hurt him and if he loosens it, well, it slips right off again. Nothing we did could remedy the situation.

For me, I'm not so slim and my shoulders are pretty much horizontal, so I did not have the slippage problem that he had, but the weight of the gear made the straps dig into my flesh and left marks, especially where the straps went under my arms.

Now, I'm looking at either the Dive Rite Transpac XT or the Transplate for both of us. While I still think the BP/W with one-piece harness has its benefits, for us, I think we would be much more comfortable in the Transpac or the Transplate, where there is a chest strap (prevents the slippage problem) as well as quick release buckles. Most of the boat diving that we've done ended with us taking off our dive belts, fins and bcds in the water and handing it to the captain onboard before we ourselves got back on the boat. I can't imagine being able to do that easily and comfortably without quick release buckles, especially if the water is choppy. Secretly, I have not completely ruled out the Halcyon Traveler yet...the way they have the weights attached to the backplate really calls to me.

While perusing Scubaboard for opinions on the Transplate, I found this (below), which was very comforting that we weren't the only ones who had trouble with the BP/W and one-piece harness:

How much wider are your shoulders than your husbands?

 

[BreeAbyss]

It kind of sounds like the harness isn't adjusted correctly for your body if the weight of the gear is digging into your shoulder and leaving marks, especially under your arms. Maybe you need a different size plate like others mentioned. I'm not a big girl and I wear steel LP85 doubles with a simple harness and have not had issues with straps digging into me. Before I had tried the simple harness I too was concerned about getting it off easily because I had a deluxe style harness before with QR buckles. I find the harness easy to slide out of and I really enjoy not having to unclip so many different buckles! It's also nice to not have to worry about the buckles breaking and ruining a trip.
I have no experience with the other systems you mentioned so I have no advice for those

 

[Dogbowl]

Thanks everyone for all of the suggestions and additional information. I can always count on the SB community to enlighten me. I'm going to seriously consider all the recommended alternatives/solutions.

Which way did you have the straps going?

Sorry, I don't quite understand this question. I did not thread it. It was a rental from the dive shop. For me, I think that if it was fitted "more" perfectly, the straps might not have dug into my flesh. I'm not sure, but maybe. For my husband, it wouldn't have helped.

How much wider are your shoulders than your husbands?

It's not that my shoulders are wider than his shoulders (which they are), but the more important thing is that his shoulders slope down and mine are horizontal. In the picture below, he is #1 and I am #2 or 3. So, basically, the harness straps just slide off, whereas if he was wearing a jacket-style bcd that had a chest strap, he doesn't have that problem.

I'm already quite floaty as it is (using 14lbs of weight in a 3mm wetsuit and jacket bcd), so I'd much prefer less bulky material. Therefore, I would like to stay as close to a BP/W as possible.

I'm not dead set on any one bcd right now. I'm still weighing my alternatives and since I am the "buyer", I have to figure out what's right for him too. I thought I was dead set on a Halcyon set-up for both of us but my husband proved me wrong. I hate it when he proves me wrong. Maybe at the end of the day, he and I will have 2 different set-ups.