Buying from local dive shop verse online?

[RonFrank]

Zulu, In my area 10 LDS have gone out of business in the last 7 years. Most lds are just making ends meet. LDS are small businesses, they have over head, they have to make a profit on retail goods or they will go out of business (that's a fact). Internet sales is just one of the factors that have cause many of the LDS to go out of business.

Firewalker

Family owned LDS's are like ANY small business. If they can NOT compete in the retail price side of the house then then BETTER compete by offering other things.

Supporting a local business is ZERO guaranty that the owner is not making foolish decisions that will put him out of business regardless of retail sales.

The LDS I use has focused on travel, and their bread and butter appears to be instruction, rentals, and a good maintenance department. They have only a handful of retail sales people, but have a very large number of instructors, and a first class facility.

Joe and Larry at Scubatoys are another example of an excellent business model. They have taken their retail business online, and Larry's internet presence, their fine web site, and helpful personal attention to online shoppers is VERY refreshing.

IMO if people in the US want to support something, support USA manufactured products. I purchased a Zeagle BC, an Aeris computer, and my regulator (TBD) will also be zeagle, or some other USA made product. Regardless of if I purchase these at a LDS or online, I am supporting US jobs which IMO is more important than purchasing from a LDS.

Ron

 

[derwoodwithasherwood]

For me, "Local" dive shop is a bit of a misnomer. The closest shop is an hour away. Each way. Because of circumstances, the most convenient shop is a 3 hour drive (again, 6 hour round trip).

I initially bought my personal gear and rented regs, BC and tanks through them. Unlike some of you, I don't dive on a weekly basis (access to water is no problem, access to a dive buddy is). When I finally decided to buy more gear, the one shop recommended I buy used and have them service it before use. The price he quoted for typical annual service was a bit high, but the owner was quite free with advice on what to look for that would meet my needs, etc. and I figured the guy deserved the support. After all, he wasn't making anything off the equipment sales.

So I picked up things a piece at a time on e-bay and on-line. I got burned with one e-bay purchase, but considering the average price I paid for all the pieces, I still made out ok. When I had assembled my kit, I phoned the LDS to arrainge the service. We made an appointment for 2:00 pm the following Friday. (I was quite willing to leave it for a week when I could make it during is normal business hours of 3:00pm to 8:00pm, but he insisted it was no problem). I arrived prior to the appointed hour and waited around with no sign of life eminating from the shop. I finally had to leave. I tried again the next week, during his "normal" business hours. Again, no one could be found. I finally decided that, nice as he was, reliability was an issue. So I took it to another shop. I really don't know the other shop -- I've used them for air fills and the odd rental -- but at least they were open for business and the place was neat and tidy.

So, now that my little rant is over, I guess my question is "How do you choose an LDS?" Obviously, if you get burnt by a place you won't go back, but how do you evaluate one in advance, before you risk your hard-earned money or worse? What signs or clues are there that say "I do quality work"?

 

[mike_s]

Just post the URL dude....

Don't hold out on us...

:banana:

I use http://www.divesports.com

They are local to me and have good prices, great customer support,
competitive brands, etc. Most of all they stand behind what
they sell and don't give you an attitude like you get at some
other somewhat local dive shops. The fact they happen
to be local is great for me.

I just didn't post the URL earlier because sometimes people on
these message boards (especially rec.scuba newsgroup) don't
like posts that anyone could consider promoting "commericial sites".
But since you requested it, here it is.

They do carry some brands that are not listed on their website
because of dealer agreements, like Dive Rite, etc. But they can
still sell them, you just have to call them. Their 800 number is
on their site.

just FYI. I don't own this store or anything. So my reference
to them is all based on good customer satisfaction with them
in service, price, etc. I'm just passing it on because I fully
understand the frustrations with in dealing with other second
rate dive shops in the past.

As for purchases, with the Internet I still browse around on other
sites to see what stuff costs, read reviews, etc. But so far
they have been almost the same price or even cheaper than
the big name stores like Leisure Pro. Example, I bought
a new Henderson wetsuit from them this past winter and got
it for cheaper than Leisure Pro and with manufacturers warranty.
You can't beat that.

Hope this is helpful to all.

-Mike

 

[dweeb]

IMO if people in the US want to support something, support USA manufactured products. I purchased a Zeagle BC, an Aeris computer, and my regulator (TBD) will also be zeagle, or some other USA made product. Regardless of if I purchase these at a LDS or online, I am supporting US jobs which IMO is more important than purchasing from a LDS.

HEY! 10 year olds in Singapore have to earn a living too, you know!

Seriously, why is a white skinned worker in the US any more entitled to a job than a brown skinned worker in the third world? I use the racial trait reference to point out the prejudicial aspect of "buy American."
People are people, and they ALL have to eat and put a roof over their heads. Why should American workers enjoy a special status where they don't have to compete?

 

[RonFrank]

HEY! 10 year olds in Singapore have to earn a living too, you know!

Seriously, why is a white skinned worker in the US any more entitled to a job than a brown skinned worker in the third world? I use the racial trait reference to point out the prejudicial aspect of "buy American."
People are people, and they ALL have to eat and put a roof over their heads. Why should American workers enjoy a special status where they don't have to compete?

I'm not suggesting that the REST of the world purchase USA goods, but if you LIVE here, then spend your $$$ on American products when possible.

This has nothing to do with RACE or prejudice, this has to do with helping US, and the country we live in. There is NO shortage of successful companies that manufacture goods in the USA.

As for competition, I'd suggest that Zeagle and Aeris BOTH make GREAT products that compete very well against the other non-USA manufactures. So why not spend your $$$ helping build the economy that YOU live in?

I am guilty of purchasing non-USA manufactured goods as it's next to impossible to just purchase made in the USA. BUT when I find quality products like ScubaPro, Sherwood, Zeagle, Aeris, and others at competitive prices, I choose those. Ironically TUSA fins are made in Tiawan, and US Divers/Aqualung is owned by a French company...

IMO the choice is obvious..

Ron

 

[ShakaZulu]

That's it, you are not feeding the little 10 year old, you are feeding the F head communist running the slave camp...........

 

[perpet1]

If you buy online, some poor LDS owner, is not going to make 50% profit. Thus his kids will not be able to eat lobster every night, and you would be responisible for them not going to college...........can you live with that????

I do not advocate buying all your gear at the LDS but they exist only because people by dive gear. If you think a dive shop could exist only by providing training then you are mistaken.

If you like options in where to recieve training and buy gear then you should at least give them the benifit of the doubt and spread your purchases out between online and LDS. I am not a dive shop owner nor do I work at one but there are far more dive shops that bearly make money then there are ones eating steak and lobster every night.

As for the margin they sell their gear at, the LDS has very little lattitude with regards to significant discounts. Although, you should insist on a 10% discount on all major purchases as most gear vendors usually set the discount limit at 10% for retailers. You will find a lot of the equipment given a 10% discount you will come close to the cost on line when you add in the cost of shipping.

 

[jlwest63]

Seriously, why is a white skinned worker in the US

I did not know all the workers in the US were white.

I am sure that even though they are assy. in the US there is a part, fitting, or the material that is imported. Even a American made Motorcycle has some import parts on it.

 

[perpet1]

Family owned LDS's are like ANY small business. If they can NOT compete in the retail price side of the house then then BETTER compete by offering other things.

Supporting a local business is ZERO guaranty that the owner is not making foolish decisions that will put him out of business regardless of retail sales.

The LDS I use has focused on travel, and their bread and butter appears to be instruction, rentals, and a good maintenance department. They have only a handful of retail sales people, but have a very large number of instructors, and a first class facility.

Joe and Larry at Scubatoys are another example of an excellent business model. They have taken their retail business online, and Larry's internet presence, their fine web site, and helpful personal attention to online shoppers is VERY refreshing.

IMO if people in the US want to support something, support USA manufactured products. I purchased a Zeagle BC, an Aeris computer, and my regulator (TBD) will also be zeagle, or some other USA made product. Regardless of if I purchase these at a LDS or online, I am supporting US jobs which IMO is more important than purchasing from a LDS.

Ron

I read all the talk about how dive shops need to change their business model to include an on-line presence. This is interesting because we all like to have local shops for things like air and last minute supplies. I do not think the two can be mutually inclusive.
Lets say every fairly popolated area had two dive shops that subscribed to the combination online and direct sales business model. That would mean you would have literally hundreds if not thousands of online shops thus saturation the online scuba market. The result would be that MANY could not compete (some would say that is a good thing) and have to go out of business. In the end you would be left with a limited number of sucessful shops that are very dispersed. Now unless you lived near one of these shops you would probably have a hard time diving for lack of local support. Even worse, you may have a sucessful shop dominate in an area after all the compitition is dead and jack up the costs for all services. These "sucessful" shops will then expand their presence and you will have the end of the "local Dive shop" and in its place a more corporate type of dive shop that has many outlets in a given region.

 

[bwerb]

Gotta love the "land of the free"...

Manufacturers "limiting" independent dealers discounts to 10%
Manufacturers "limiting" independent dealers advertised price levels
Manufacturers "demanding" independent dealers buy X product if they want to buy Y product as well.
Manufacturers "refusing" to honor warranties of products they made in their factories because someone stepped outside of their little price fixing scheme.

I personally don't blame most LDS's for the situation they are in, I blame the retail system overall for allowing a true two model distribution system to be defended within a free market society.

(My personal favorite from this week was good old Microsoft...went to four local dealers to purchase Office 2004 Professional for Mac upgrade...I received the same answer from all of them...not in stock, don't see it in our system yet, we could likely order it for you, let's check the price...hmm...looks like $729 CDN...no that's for the full edition...hmm...one quoted $649 CDN, another quoted $499 CDN both said this was the MSRP...who knows which was wrong. I went online...found the street price is $289.95 US (MSRP is $329)...this converts to roughly $367 CDN street or $417 CDN list. Tried to order...response...Microsoft does not allow us to ship this program to Canada (read between the lines...because we have a MUCH higher MSRP for the EXACT SAME program in Canada and our dealer arrangements do not allow our dealers to actually offer ANY discount off MSRP on this item). So...the trick is to order it to a friends house in the US...saving $132 minus the cost of a stamp...for a program I can't currently even buy at a local shop. Yes folks it's almost as screwed up here...but at least we outlawed the (MAP) minimum advertized pricing laws.