. . . you dive without a DM, Tim you might die
I'm sure I got a few more items looking to kill me other than the DM....
Can You 'Really' Dive?
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I'm sure I got a few more items looking to kill me other than the DM....
Try telling that to the sheep...
princessaprilia
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ScubaSteve
Wow.....what a DB
You say "princess" like it's a bad thing?
Only in certain circumstances....I am sure you are a good princess
Do you use your princessliness for good? or evil?
princessaprilia
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I hand down my royal pardon, eh.
princessaprilia
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WOW, this thread is "all over the board" (pun intended). I prefer to set up my own equipment but appreciate someone looking things over when I am done. I am capable of packing my own equipment on and off the boat but appreciate it when someone offers help. I will help anyone once I have completed my own tasks of packing and setting up my gear and if I have an extra hand to lend during the process. I intently listen to any instruction and information given during the briefing which in the person or persons giving the briefing can give me for safety and enjoyment of the dive.
With the small amount of experience I have, the information or breifing has always been given by the DM. For the dives I have done, the DM is knowledgeable of the area being dived and the creatures that are there. Yes, a tour guide if you will. But a tour guide that has valuable information and training in the event of an accident or trouble. I DO NOT expect the DM to lug my gear, set up my gear or babysit me on a dive. I DO expect a DM to be aware of the challenges that may be present for the area I am about to dive. I DO expect a DM to be informed of the area I am going to dive and prepare me for what conditions I can expect. IMO once in the water a DM should be there as a guide and an observer. Offering assistance in the event of an emergency. A second buddy, NOT a babysitter but and experienced observer there to help guide me to the "pretty fishies" and help watch for potential danger like changing currents, visibility and unexpected trouble. It is interesting that a DM's duties in Florida are so IMO underutilized. I would think a DM's knowledge of the area to be dived would be best used by being in the water, "along for the ride" if you will. If someone wants to be spoiled or be a princess they should make prior arrangements with a operator that is prepared to do so. Then turn to the DM for the underwater part of the experience. One should be able to do the "grunt" work or have made arrangements for that. A DM is (or at least should be) a trained professional available for the experience in the watery part of the journey. I see a DM as being just that a "Dive" master. It seems to me moving gear to a from should be maybe the role of a person or persons paid to do that sort of thing. But if a DM wants to offer assistance OK. I have a lot of respect for DM's. They far have more training, experience and knowledge than I do. That being said, I REALLY appreciate it when someone offers to take my rig prior to me crawling out of the water and onto the boat. I have a back injury that makes that part difficult, not impossible, but difficult. I have read in other posts that this is the way things are done in certain parts of the country and find it interesting that DM's do not take part in the "wet" part of the dive, thus my opinion on being underutilized.
With that, I think I know what the OP was trying to say but, the delivery was somewhat caustic. I can understand the feelings the OP has if the knowledge, training and abilities available are not being used. That does not make right the way it was presented. I read the thread before it was edited and did not take part in the insuing battle though as I said I found the OP very caustic in the presentation.
I would hesitate to post this in a different forum but will in the Whine and Cheez section.
With the small amount of experience I have, the information or breifing has always been given by the DM. For the dives I have done, the DM is knowledgeable of the area being dived and the creatures that are there. Yes, a tour guide if you will. But a tour guide that has valuable information and training in the event of an accident or trouble. I DO NOT expect the DM to lug my gear, set up my gear or babysit me on a dive. I DO expect a DM to be aware of the challenges that may be present for the area I am about to dive. I DO expect a DM to be informed of the area I am going to dive and prepare me for what conditions I can expect. IMO once in the water a DM should be there as a guide and an observer. Offering assistance in the event of an emergency. A second buddy, NOT a babysitter but and experienced observer there to help guide me to the "pretty fishies" and help watch for potential danger like changing currents, visibility and unexpected trouble. It is interesting that a DM's duties in Florida are so IMO underutilized. I would think a DM's knowledge of the area to be dived would be best used by being in the water, "along for the ride" if you will. If someone wants to be spoiled or be a princess they should make prior arrangements with a operator that is prepared to do so. Then turn to the DM for the underwater part of the experience. One should be able to do the "grunt" work or have made arrangements for that. A DM is (or at least should be) a trained professional available for the experience in the watery part of the journey. I see a DM as being just that a "Dive" master. It seems to me moving gear to a from should be maybe the role of a person or persons paid to do that sort of thing. But if a DM wants to offer assistance OK. I have a lot of respect for DM's. They far have more training, experience and knowledge than I do. That being said, I REALLY appreciate it when someone offers to take my rig prior to me crawling out of the water and onto the boat. I have a back injury that makes that part difficult, not impossible, but difficult. I have read in other posts that this is the way things are done in certain parts of the country and find it interesting that DM's do not take part in the "wet" part of the dive, thus my opinion on being underutilized.
With that, I think I know what the OP was trying to say but, the delivery was somewhat caustic. I can understand the feelings the OP has if the knowledge, training and abilities available are not being used. That does not make right the way it was presented. I read the thread before it was edited and did not take part in the insuing battle though as I said I found the OP very caustic in the presentation.
I would hesitate to post this in a different forum but will in the Whine and Cheez section.
Jupiter31
Contributor
Hi. I got certified in 1994 at the age of 23. Boy that was fun. I still smile thinking of how exciting it was to go to my first class to learn about the course curriculum and the short list of much needed gear. Mask, fins, and snorkel. YMCA. Two 4 hour classes a week for several weeks. Can't remember how many now. I'm must be getting old, but do remember not only learning about the essentials of basic OW, but also rescue and gas management in that class. From what I've read on the board, they don't teach it like they used to anymore. However, I will admit I must have been brain dead on navigation day because to this day my nav skills suck.
Don't feel bad - I got certified in 1977 and I'm still navigationally challanged
Anyway, my instructor gave me the choice of checking out at Lake Travis or going on a trip he'd put together to Cozumel. Of course, I chose Cozumel. I mean, that is why we dive, isn't it? To be in the ocean. I was smiling big when we boarded the dive boat in Coz... 12 DM's and 2 students in our group. There were also four other divers there as well. One in particular caught my attention. SHE was the kind of diver I equate with skuba_girl's opening post. There we were on a dive boat and this thirty something woman had fully done, hairsprayed hair, full face of make up, bright flourescent pink bathing suit with matching pink acrylic nails. Yes all 20 of them were acrylic. Now, don't get me wrong. I have absolutely no problem with a woman who wants to look her best and actually encourage as many as I can to do so, however, even I knew (a newby) that it had to be unusual for a diver to come diving fully made up. Wish her specialness ended there. No, sorry to disappoint or not, but yes, she was too helpless to put her gear together much less check it or her husbands for safety... she couldn't even put her gear ON.... the DM's had to do it and help her in the water. I remember thinking.. this is definitely not the diver I aspire to be. I could go on and describe the train wreck she was in the water, but I'll save that for another thread.
So, this is the diver who came to mind when I read the OP's original post. Not handicapped divers, not newbie divers who are still learning, and most definitely not veteran divers who had an injury and need a helping hand now and again.
Me too
Thanks and dive safe.
Carmen - You made some good points - and there were good ones made on both sides of the "discussion"
My peeve is boyancy skills - if you are causing a sandstorm, you screw up the viz for everyone........ especially on a drift dive as the it follows you down the reef/ledge
Even if you can't achieve neutral balance/trim, simply (try) to stay off the bottom
I have zero problems with helping out anyone - just ask - sure there are always going to be those like you described in your post, but I think the OP's 1st post was a tad strong, and feel that these has to be something behind it that should be shared.
vinegarbiscuit
Contributor
Interesting, thanks for the answers folks. So there is not a big demand out there for a guide to show all the hot spots on a particular site? I would think most photographers would want this, especially sites like Blue Heron Bridge or whatnot where you get a lot of great macro stuff? As a photographer I would much rather have a guide to show me where all the photogenic stuff is so i don't waste all my time trying to find it when I could have a guide who knows where it is... You have to pay extra for a guide on a lot of the charters? Interesting...
I love SB
Even if the demand were there, having a DM isn't necessarily practical in the Northeast. That's partly due to the prevailing conditions and the 'types' of divers that are attracted to the Northeast. The visibility isn't always the greatest, so a DM would have a hell of a time on his/her hands keeping an eye on everyone. Northeast boats also aren't famous for attracting vacation divers. Most of the divers I've encountered are bug hunters, spear-fisherfolk, penetration wreck-divers, or artifact hunters - activities when having a buddy (let alone a paid guide) isn't standard operating procedure. I've seen divers out there with cameras, but often for a specific reason in mind, such as videotaping wreckage or shooting pictures to try and ID artifacts.
Amazing, how radically that dive boat 'customs' vary with location, I know!
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