CDWS Exam and Work Permit Questions

[tacky]

So, if the instructors don't leave in Winter that means they will have more experience from diving in the area and that the staff in general would be more qualified. That would be a good thing for visiting divers, right?

As someone who has lived a few years in Egypt I understand fully that for the dive professionals the added bureaucracy is a real hassle.

Could anyone post previous threads or more infomration about last year's changes, please. Much apreciated.

 

[macrobubble]

The industry will not collapse, but will suffer nevertheless!

For most diving centers it has become very difficult, if not impossible, to find qualified staff on short notice that can speak the required language! In former years you could always find an instructor or a divemaster, speaking any langauge you needed - now they are either gone because they could not get a CDWS-card or (the good ones) were lucky enough to find permanent employment. Either way: you can´t find the people you need.
Courses will not be given anymore in the language the customer speaks, but rather by egyptian nationals who speak english poorly (maybe just like the customer),and are just capable of putting the DVD into the player, hand out the book and hope there will be no complicated questions they can´t understand, let alone answer. Quality of beginner training will go down the drain even more and sooner rather than later people who are interested in diving will be discouraged to go to Egypt for their course because of the low quality they will find here - the internet and the review sites as well as the diving magazines will surely take care of that!

I am all for employing egyptian staff! If you can show me egyptian instructors who speak the required languages fluently, have the necessary interpersonal skills and the required work ethics. I konw that there are egyptian instructors and divemasters who have all that - but of course all the (few) good ones are already permanently employed. Those that are not, are without employment for a reason!

Let´s face it: without foreign instructors and divemasters, relying on egyptian nationals alone, the industry will not be able to offer the level of quality the customers want, need and deserve. It´s the sad truth!

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

Quality of beginner training will go down the drain even more and sooner rather than later people who are interested in diving will be discouraged to go to Egypt for their course because of the low quality they will find here - the internet and the review sites as well as the diving magazines will surely take care of that!

Magazines are all about ads. Do you expect a magazine to say: "Hey, we went to Egypt and received crappy training."?! And why on earth would ANY Red Sea operator do business with them any more?

Magazine articles will always "discuss" how beautiful Sharm is, how wonderful the latest wrecks-and-reef liveaboard trip was, etc... THAT would work, and ONLY this way they can sell ads. :cool2:

As for the bad reviews, for every negative Red Sea review, there will always be more than one negative review from other touristic locations. Right?

 

[Crowley]

So, if the instructors don't leave in Winter that means they will have more experience from diving in the area and that the staff in general would be more qualified. That would be a good thing for visiting divers, right?

I am talking about instructors that have been working here for years but only in the summer season. They often then go back home and work the winter, or move to somewhere like Thailand, where the high season is over the European winter. They are already experienced in the area. This makes it even more difficult for prospective newcomers over the winter (not a great time anyway, it is low season after all).

If you plan on coming here, try to make contact before hand, some centres are advertising on the PADI webiste, which would have been rare in past years unless a centre had very specific requirements. Do not waste your time if you are single-language only. The chances of work are substantially reduced; German, Italian and Russian are most sought after, English of course is a must, and there is quite a large Scandinavian contigent during the winter months.

Make sure you are prepared financially because you might be hanging around for a few months with very little work. Do not expect dive centres to promise you work permits, and as per my previous post - make sure you can impress. There is room for both experienced and inexperienced instructors who are prepared to work hard with a short learning curve; but you can almost expect to be put on a probabtionary period to see if you fit into the team. This is the case at most of the big centres. Smaller dive centres are hampered by the work permit rule of 1 foreigner to every 10 egyptian staff - actually 3:10 now. Many dive centres are owned by an associated hotel, so the ratio is not a problem but smaller, independent centres are forced to hire egyptian staff to comply, although this includes bus drivers, tank boys, boat crews etc.

There are a lot of requirements to fulfill, but if you think you meet them, there is work here for you. Sadly the days of the itinerant freelancer are probably at an end - and next year will be interesting in the Chinese curse sense of the term because, inevitably, people will leave, and replacing them will be more difficult.

As before - it's a subject that affects many staff here - I'd like to talk more with other dive employees here.

For holidaymakers - do not be put off coming here - just don't be surprised if your instructor or dive guide wants to go home early and not stay out on the Sakara all night!

Cheers

C.

 

[tacky]

A different question: If you already were to aqquire a work permit, it would be enough to get CDWS certified, right?

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

As before - it's a subject that affects many staff here - I'd like to talk more with other dive employees here.

I'm not an employee, but feel free to PM me. Actually I believe we should all think about the future, the near future.

 

[Crowley]

A different question: If you already were to aqquire a work permit, it would be enough to get CDWS certified, right?

This Statement from the CDWS clearly indicates that you must obtain your work permit through a dive centre....

... Howere, I am told there is indeed a mechanism by which you can get CDWS card as an independent, however I believe it is more expensive. I don't have any further information on this as yet but will ask around and post it when I do. All the staff I know went through the process by obtaining a letter of approval from a dive centre.

Cheers

C.

 

[tacky]

From reading the statement, seems like it would be much less hassle and possibly more profitable if you are an instructor to make arrangements with a dive shop and bring groups from your own country.

 

[Crowley]

From reading the statement, seems like it would be much less hassle and possibly more profitable if you are an instructor to make arrangements with a dive shop and bring groups from your own country.

Highly unlikely.

You still need a dive centre to agree with the arrangements - this means they are of course losing business to a travelling instructor who is only going to want to rent tanks, weights and gear. Business from the cost of the course will be lost.

The travelling instructor is going to have to arrange insurance, hotel accomodation and air fares for himself and the group which means that the cost of an open water course for the diver is probably going to work out slightly more expensive than booking a package deal with a resident dive centre. The instructor will be asking for European rates from his customer, not egyptian salaries... yes, it happens from time to time at my centre, but very rarely in comparison to overall volume.

I earn less than an instructor in, for example, the UK, but my rent per month is less than some hotels here charge per DAY, so in terms of cost effectiveness, it's a no brainer.

The rules are not to everybody's liking, but sadly that is the way it is here, so the best we can do is comply and get on with our jobs.

Cheers

C.

 

[macrobubble]

Highly unlikely.

You still need a dive centre to agree with the arrangements - this means they are of course losing business to a travelling instructor who is only going to want to rent tanks, weights and gear. Business from the cost of the course will be lost.

Hmm...
not sooooo unlikely!
After all, the travelling salesm... eh ... instructor will bring customers that otherwise would probably not be at that center at all. He is doing all the work while the center could charge a percentage of the course rate for its logistic support. If that percentage is reasonable enough it´s worth it.

I welcome foreign instructors that bring their own groups at my center any time!
And who knows: if the customers like it there, and the service we provide is of good quality, they might come back, booking directly with us next time around...