Certification Levels

[boulderjohn]

Sometimes, Life's just easier when you've got the credentials to do what you wanna do without extra hassles.

Good point, and it's not just cruise ships. A lot of people don't realize that many dive operators with multiple boats will usually try to divide their divers into groups by perceived ability. It isn't just the site that may be different; it may be how the DM lets you dive and how the DM interacts with the site. A beginning group in Cozumel may have a very different experience on the same site from an advanced group that is checking out all the neat swim throughs, etc. That is one of the reasons I don't understand why many advanced divers hide their true level of certification when they go with an operator. They could be missing really great dives as they get grouped with the beginners all the time.

 

[fjpatrum]

Finding the right instructor to take the course from is key. Don't get hung up on the organization. If you like PADI but you know of a outstanding SDI instructor then take the SDI. Please no fish I'd!

Make no mistake, I have no loyalty to PADI and don't have any concern about which agency I get future training from, as long as the training is good.

My issue is that I think most people (especially me) would be better served diving with mentors rather than taking AOW. I think there are certainly AOW classes that would be worth the time and effort, such as Bob's or Jim's as have been outlined in this thread. Would I benefit from one of their courses? Most likely; but most of the courses I've found locally won't serve me the same way. Sad but true...


As for comfort versus competence, I will say I don't think you can be comfortable (truly) without competence. Certainly there are those of us who are over-confident as newbs but that doesn't make someone incompetent.

 

[boulderjohn]

My issue is that I think most people (especially me) would be better served diving with mentors rather than taking AOW. I think there are certainly AOW classes that would be worth the time and effort, such as Bob's or Jim's as have been outlined in this thread. Would I benefit from one of their courses? Most likely; but most of the courses I've found locally won't serve me the same way. Sad but true...

Here's your problem--how do you know your Mentor is any good?

I learned to ski from Mentors, and when I finally had enough money to take lessons, they were never fully able to undo all the bad habits I had picked up from those Mentors.

Anyone who reads ScubaBoard regularly has read over and over and over again about all the sad looking divers they see. Which one of those will you choose to be your Mentor?

Anyone who reads ScubaBoard regularly has seen over and over and over again the really bad advice some experienced divers give on these threads. Which one of those will you choose to be your Mentor?

I have taught several classes in which students told me that they already had Mentors who will guide them after class, Mentors who had already told them that they didn't need to learn about tables or use a computer because the dive masters take care of all of that for them.

Yes, the value of an AOW course varies dramatically by the instructor you choose, so you may get one that isn't so hot, but I would be your chances of getting good advice are at least somewhat better than the chances you will get good advice from a friend who happens to have been diving for a while.

 

[Mayor]

Make no mistake, I have no loyalty to PADI and don't have any concern about which agency I get future training from, as long as the training is good. My issue is that I think most people (especially me) would be better served diving with mentors rather than taking AOW. I think there are certainly AOW classes that would be worth the time and effort, such as Bob's or Jim's as have been outlined in this thread. Would I benefit from one of their courses? Most likely; but most of the courses I've found locally won't serve me the same way. Sad but true...As for comfort versus competence, I will say I don't think you can be comfortable (truly) without competence. Certainly there are those of us who are over-confident as newbs but that doesn't make someone incompetent.

As I offered before you can always call / PM / email me to set up a date to dive. We could do a fun dive or two and then I could introduce you to my mentors Trace Malinowski (PSAI) and Bob Sherwood (GUE). Now that sounds like the start to a world class skill set!

 

[Darnold9999]

Late to the discussion, but I had a very similar experience. Learned to dive with NAUI in the late 70's - dove regularly for a year or so. No such thing as AOW so dove to whatever depths I wanted. Then only warm water vacation diving for 25 years. Total 100 dives or so then got back into diving regularly about 5 years ago after diving the GBR on a liveaboard. Had NO interest in AOW, would have been a waste of time and $. However I found an instructor/shop who would allow me to do a PADI Rescue course based on all of that and my 1978 NAUI ScubaDiver card.

With the Rescue card and Nitrox card I never had any issues. Without the Rescue card I did have problems with operators wanting AOW.

You might see if you can skip AOW and just do Rescue. May or may not solve your problem, but it did for me and I found Rescue to be a good course.

 

[RetroBlader]

Assuming someone is inclined to take the time and potential liability to 'watch' you on the first dive, you could still be put in a 'newbie' group headed to a shallower site, as opposed to a 'better' site for a group with AOW, Deep or better cert.s.

Sometimes, Life's just easier when you've got the credentials to do what you wanna do without extra hassles.

Good point, and it's not just cruise ships. A lot of people don't realize that many dive operators with multiple boats will usually try to divide their divers into groups by perceived ability. It isn't just the site that may be different; it may be how the DM lets you dive and how the DM interacts with the site.

Exactly. My wife and I were in St. Lucia just a month ago.

We don't have a lot of dives under our belt, but we have done 34 dives since getting our PADI O/W 3 years ago, and have dived in a variety of environments (Florida Keys, Cozumel/Roatan, Auraba/Curacao, and French Polynesia) and gone as deep as 33m (got photo of the SPG to prove it ).

However, since we didn't have AOW, the St. Lucia operator put us in the "less experienced" group, while some divers with fewer dives but AOW credential were in the "more experienced" group.

I still enjoyed the dives (even with being kicked in the mask by members of our group who were just certified the day before), but probably would have had an even better experience in the other group. For one, we probably could have gotten a bit more bottom time. Six out of nine dives I came up with more than 1500 psi left (once I had 2100).




We're now planning a dive-specific vacation in February (a week at Scuba Club Cozumel, to be exact).

I'm seriously considering getting AOW (plus/minus Nitrox) while we are there.

This thread has been extremely educational. However, my biggest question has been raised (by boulderjohn) but not quite answered yet:

Here's your problem--how do you know your Mentor is any good?

While my wife and I don't mind getting a "rubber stamp" AOW just to help with future "group by credential, not by experience" scenarios, but obviously we'll be be better served by a real course like the one Jim offers.

Does anyone know if the AOW course offered by SCC will be more the former or the latter?

Thanks in advance.

 

[boulderjohn]

While my wife and I don't mind getting a "rubber stamp" AOW just to help with future "group by credential, not by experience" scenarios, but obviously we'll be be better served by a real course like the one Jim offers.

Does anyone know if the AOW course offered by SCC will be more the former or the latter?

It really depends upon the instructor. The PADI AOW can be excellent with the right instructor. I did mine through PADI in Cozumel with Dive with Martin. (That was a long time ago, and I doubt if anyone I met then is still there.) It was great for me precisely because I was the only one in the class, so I had 5 one-on-one dives with the instructor. We did the content of the class, of course, but he did a lot more during the dives and in debriefing the dives afterward. I learned a lot and made considerable progress. If you run into the same sort of situation, you can do very well.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

You can also call SCC and ask them. Tell them what you expect out of the course and if they cannot meet your expectations wait until you can find a class that will. One thing new divers need to remember is that the shop and instructor are not the boss. You are. You are hiring someone to train you. Why should you accept less than you want or need?

You see now that cookie cutter rubber stamp classes may be the norm but that does not mean you have to take them. You may need to look a little harder and broaden your search to include other agencies but the classes are there. Bob and I are not the only ones I'm sure that teach like we do. You need to be proactive and interview your potential instructor just as you would anyone you were hiring to do a job for you.

Don't let shops or instructors tell you they cannot meet your needs when the truth is they simply won't.

 

[RetroBlader]

You can also call SCC and ask them. Tell them what you expect out of the course and if they cannot meet your expectations wait until you can find a class that will. One thing new divers need to remember is that the shop and instructor are not the boss. You are. You are hiring someone to train you. Why should you accept less than you want or need?

Thanks, will give them a call tomorrow.

Out of curiosity, Jim, where do you take students for your AOW dives?

Around here, it's too cold to dive in the winter so the LDS only takes students out in July/Aug/Sep (Aquarius Scuba Diving Center - Scuba Diving Trip - Brockville). Canonsburg, PA is obviously further south, but still nowhere near the tropics.

 

[RTee]

Late to the discussion, but I had a very similar experience. Learned to dive with NAUI in the late 70's - dove regularly for a year or so. No such thing as AOW so dove to whatever depths I wanted. Then only warm water vacation diving for 25 years. Total 100 dives or so then got back into diving regularly about 5 years ago after diving the GBR on a liveaboard. Had NO interest in AOW, would have been a waste of time and $. However I found an instructor/shop who would allow me to do a PADI Rescue course based on all of that and my 1978 NAUI ScubaDiver card.

With the Rescue card and Nitrox card I never had any issues. Without the Rescue card I did have problems with operators wanting AOW.

You might see if you can skip AOW and just do Rescue. May or may not solve your problem, but it did for me and I found Rescue to be a good course.

I bet you also got a Skin Diver card as well....