Certification

[LarryNJ]

I appreciate all the great suggestions and opinions. For sure we'll take the 2 included dives afterwards and probably a day or 2 of diving. Than decide whether to just dive and practice or take another class.

 

[TMHeimer]

There are 2 camps regarding when to take AOW. I lean toward doing it right away, or after just a very few dives. Of course, this assumes you have the basics down pretty good right after finishing OW--like working the equipment, buoyancy, etc. You don't want to be flopping around while trying to do, say, compass navigation on the AOW Nav dive.

 

[Mustard Dave]

I did the AOW straight after OW and it didn't do me any harm. AOW is not a particularly difficult course - it is just a bit of reading, a few knowledge reviews and five experience dives. I wouldn't say you have to do it straight after OW, but I wouldn't leave it too long. I hear of people who have over 100 dives before doing the AOW course and wonder what exactly they are going to learn. The advantage of doing the AOW straight after OW is it is an opportunity to spend more time with your instructor and get some additional coaching to build on the skills from OW.

get 25 dives after cert, then get AOW. And at 50 dives, take Rescue.

Just my opinion, and what I did.

Both are reasonable numbers, but somewhat arbitrary. Like I say, there's no harm in doing AOW straight after OW, but why leave it until x number of dives before learning skills that could get them out of a potentially dangerous situation? Personally I would recommend taking the RD course when you feel comfortable.

Everything starts with Buoyancy! Take a Quality Buoyancy Class before doing anything else. Without Buoyancy & Trim we don't have Control. Having Control allows us to protect our environment, communicate with buddy, navigate, take photos etc....

I agree with the importance of buoyancy, but if you have to take a dedicated class, it suggests the student hasn't been taught properly to begin with. The AOW can be used by the instructor to further hone the student's buoyancy skills.

 

[RJP]

I agree with the importance of buoyancy, but if you have to take a dedicated class, it suggests the student hasn't been taught properly to begin with.

Really? I'm an instructor with ~1,000 dives and multiple advanced technical certifications... and I still work on refining my buoyancy, trim, and propulsion skills on every dive.

PS - several of my wreck and tech certification cards have Wayne's name on the back. There are few recreational divers around that would not benefit from taking his dedicated buoyancy/trim/propulsion course.

---------- Post added March 12th, 2015 at 09:18 PM ----------

get 25 dives after cert, then get AOW. And at 50 dives, take Rescue.

Right. Do 4 dives to get certified. Then fumble around on your own for another 21 before learning more. Then wait another 25 dives before getting some good training on self/buddy rescue.

I tell students to think of OW as "Diving - Semester 1" and AOW as "Diving - Semester 2." Sure, you can wait between the two if you want... but there's no good reason to NOT take AOW right after OW if you want to.

Just my opinion, and what I did.

Funny how those two thing are usually tightly aligned for most people.

:d

 

[KeithG]

i suggest you do not "over certify". Courses are a great place to learn stuff. even better if you already know what you need to learn.

many new divers focus on course dives instead of experience dives. they blow through multiple courses without mastering many of the skills. they get the tick boxes (cards) but do not really learn the skills.

i suggest you you do a few dives on your own, then do a honest self assessment, then do a few dives with a hired DM and ask them for an independent assessment.

Then decide if you need more self practise dives, non course DM training dives, or a real course dive.

If you think you just need to practise and hone skills you are aware of, hiring a DM for this without enrolling in a course makes sense. you can learn outside of courses.

 

[KevinNM]

Problem is most new divers have no idea what a good diver looks like. I was looking at the web site of a local dive shop and not a single diver in the album that played in the background seemed to be in trim.

So so it's hard for them to tell how good they are.

 

[KeithG]

Problem is most new divers have no idea what a good diver looks like. I was looking at the web site of a local dive shop and not a single diver in the album that played in the background seemed to be in trim.

So so it's hard for them to tell how good they are.

this could simply be an instructor fail.

on our most recent vacation diver trip, there were 3 groups of dive shops at the resort. one of the groups was very poorly trained. the group leader used a rebreather, but had no buoyancy control. they bycycled until they hit the bottom and then pushed off the sand/coral/whatever.

it was always easy to spot the custer as they where somewhere in that cloud of silt over there.

the group thought the instructor / leader was a scuba god. i was annoyed to get stuck on the same dive site as the leader.

 

[Mustard Dave]

Really? I'm an instructor with ~1,000 dives and multiple advanced technical certifications... and I still work on refining my buoyancy, trim, and propulsion skills on every dive.

PS - several of my wreck and tech certification cards have Wayne's name on the back. There are few recreational divers around that would not benefit from taking his dedicated buoyancy/trim/propulsion course.

I'm not saying you shouldn't work on buoyancy - I'm saying it shouldn't be necessary to pay for a dedicated course on something you should be taught from day one.

I'm not expecting every newly minted OW diver to have perfect buoyancy skills, but they should have enough to know what they should be aiming for and something they can continue to practice. It astounds me when I see divers turning up for AOW courses (and even higher) either needing to ask the instructor how much weight they need, insisting they need enough to sink a battleship and not knowing how to do a weight check.

When I did the AOW, buoyancy was drummed into me on every dive. PPB was one of the dives, so it goes without saying, but for the others:

Deep - stay in control as you descend the shot, watch the silt when we arrive near the bottom
Nav - keep control of your buoyancy - don't let the compass distract you from doing so,
Wreck - arrive on the wreck neutrally buoyant, don't crash onto the deck, don't be having to grab it all the time
Drysuit - most of this related to buoyancy control

You should strive to achieve perfect buoyancy control, however, the PPB course seems like an excuse for somebody to make a few quid out of you rather than working on it on all courses as a fundamental skill, as it should be.

 

[RJP]

You should strive to achieve perfect buoyancy control, however, the PPB course seems like an excuse for somebody to make a few quid out of you rather than working on it on all courses as a fundamental skill, as it should be.

I dunno. My buoyancy was very good coming out of OW, better after AOW (which was the next 5 dives after OW) and dare I say phenomenal after taking a PPB class at Wayne's shop. The dives for that course were logged dives 13 and 14 for me. Dives 11 and 12 were my Drysuit course with the same instructor. (Thanks, Petra!) To this day I still remember the 'Notes' she wrote in my log book that day: "Instructor-quality buoyancy control... but don't stop working on it!"

Could I have spent the 40-50 dives - and six months to a year of time - after OW refining what I initially learned to that same point? Sure. Was it worth the what it cost me to really dial things in during two dives with a great instructor instead? Absolutely.

If someone has a PPB experience that seems like nothing more than an excuse for someone to pocket a few quid I'd suggest there's an issue with that instructor and that specific class... rather than an issue with the PPB course in general.

 

[FinnMom]

It's very true that you will get more out of your AOW class if you have the basics (esp. bouyancy control) fairly well in hand. On the other hand AOWD is an opportunity to gain an instructor's attention in helping with skills like this. So I'd say do at least a couple dives to practise what you learned in OW, but if you two are pretty good and pretty confident, what the heck. There would be value in having more skills and theory to take home and think about, maybe even practise at a pool or OW-site back home.

Maybe on your next trip you can spend the course money on a little private coaching to get you back in the swing and perfect your skills.