Clipping off an SMB/Flag

[DMDavid]

I've probably done thousands of drift dives in strong currents while towing a float in depths between 60 and 140 ft depth or so.

I've never done a drift dive at 140ft but I'm sure that would be the result if I was blown off the Spiegel Grove or the USCGC Duane when the current is running strong.

The best place for the reel (and reef hook) is in your buddy's hands...

That is exactly where I try to keep mine at all times...0p



FB-Florida Scuba Diver

 

[sotgecho]

This is what we use off of the dive boat to carry the dive flag while leading a dive. We use the grapple to hook off if we see something interesting to show the divers. It is easier for me to handle the flag holding the grapple which I have wrapped in hockey tape; it provides some friction to hold it easier. The reel also has a release on it to let out line as needed.

For DSMB I use a finger spool to deploy it; however I am starting to use a smaller version of that reel for DSMB deployment.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

double sorry

 

[dumpsterDiver]

That is pretty much identical to what I have been using for a while. I have moved away from nylon line however.

A much better line is kevlar line, i think it is 600 lb test or something and it is much more cut resistant and it is also stiffer, so if you do get a loose loop, it is less likely to tangle.

Comes in high vis yellow, but it is expensive.

 

[The Chairman]

P.S: Also, its a bit off topic, but it does deal with dive flags. Remember that just because you have a diveflag up doesnt mean boats cant legally roll right up on top of you.

In Florida the law states that boats must LEGALLY stay 300 ft away from a diver while under way. They can only approach if they have reduced their speed to steerage only. Within smaller bodies of waters, the rule is 100 ft and divers must stay within 100 ft of their flag at all times. You can read a number of the differing State Laws here: Dive Flag Awareness . Of course, if your state or country is not mentioned, please find out the regulations for them and post away.

The only way to legally protect yourself is to fly both a dive flag and an alpha pennant, or just the alpha pennant. This is because the alpha pennant is legally recognized as meaning that a vessel has restricted mobility, and that could help you win a court case should something happen.

Since YOU are not a vessel, this would be, in itself, illegal. The alpha flag is for a vessel, like a boat. It means that its movements are constrained by operations. I am not sure why Dive Boats aren't required to display the flag during the day and the lights at night. Actually, they might be required, but they conveniently don't follow that protocol.

As for clipping the flag to my person, that depends on the area I am diving and the activity I am doing. If I am hunting Sharks Teeth off of Venice Florida, then the flag clipped to me. If I am hunting game, then the flag gets clipped to my gun. If I am doing a drift dive on a busy reef, I will hold my flag in my hand. Rather than a snag hook (three prongs), I use a reef hook with a single prong. Less likely to snag ME if someone on the surface starts to drag my flag.

FWIW, I clip off my SMB often, but only AFTER it has reached the surface. Practice helps with this skill and its a part of my AOW curriculum.

 

[g1138]

I just like to state/clarify that clipping off any type of float or SMB to your person is always a bad idea IMO. But if you need 2 hands for some purpose, then having a quick breakaway connection of some sort is much more preferred than having none.
In the case of towing a float, they (connections) should NOT be used for the WHOLE duration of the dive. They should only be used when you need the use of both hands AND when you can't afford to let go of your line.

- Bolt snaps need to have slack or the right angle to unclip.
- Orings aren't durable for continued dive use, and how do you store them and deploy them easily when needed? They're not going to stay looped to a D-ring when there's nothing connected.
- Snap shackles I think, are the most ideal securing device that allows for a quick release. Especially when there's a large amount of tension on the line it's connected to. It gives you the options of quick releasing or cutting your line (The former having the ability to be much faster).
Yes you will be dragged a ways before you can react, but it's a much better option than having no option at all.

 

[Togalive]

In Florida the law states that boats must LEGALLY stay 300 ft away from a diver while under way. They can only approach if they have reduced their speed to steerage only. Within smaller bodies of waters, the rule is 100 ft and divers must stay within 100 ft of their flag at all times. You can read a number of the differing State Laws here: Dive Flag Awareness . Of course, if your state or country is not mentioned, please find out the regulations for them and post away.

Please do not take my post out of context. I clearly stated that I was unfamiliar with Florida laws regarding the matter, and other posters have already covered FL law in previous posts within this thread. Also, whether the boat is under just enough power to steer, or cruising along, any spinning prop is a serious hazard is it not?

Since YOU are not a vessel, this would be, in itself, illegal. The alpha flag is for a vessel, like a boat. It means that its movements are constrained by operations. I am not sure why Dive Boats aren't required to display the flag during the day and the lights at night. Actually, they might be required, but they conveniently don't follow that protocol.

With regard to your saying that this practice is illegal, I believe that such a statement is just plain incorrect. If it were illegal, then why would it be mentioned in the PADI OWD manual? Also, at least in California, I know for a fact that you can post an Alpha Pennant on a dive float. This has been confirmed with the Coast Guard.

 

[The Chairman]

Please do not take my post out of context. I clearly stated that I was unfamiliar with Florida laws regarding the matter, and other posters have already covered FL law in previous posts within this thread.

To this point, no one has adequately presented Florida's Law. My apologies if you didn't want to learn.

Also, whether the boat is under just enough power to steer, or cruising along, any spinning prop is a serious hazard is it not?

You're kidding right? If this were the case, then why reduce road speeds by schools? After all, a car speeding at 55 mph must be just as dangerous as one going 15, right?

Think about it again and the answer is obvious on two levels... slower boats are able to react to a head popping out of the water far easier than one going fast. Secondly, if you completely prohibited boats within 100 feet, then how could dive boats pick people up? Every time I got within 100 feet, they would motor off a bit to respect the law!

With regard to your saying that this practice is illegal, I believe that such a statement is just plain incorrect. If it were illegal, then why would it be mentioned in the PADI OWD manual? Also, at least in California, I know for a fact that you can post an Alpha Pennant on a dive float. This has been confirmed with the Coast Guard.

This is easy... your personal dive float should not have an alpha flag as YOU are not a vessel. However, any boat qualifies as a vessel and can fly the alpha flag. In Florida, flying JUST a divers down flag could earn you a citation. That's an FWC rule. Diving operations in the State of Florida, whether they are commercial or private must display a Divers Down flag. They can display any other flags which are appropriate, but they are breaking the law if they don't have a Divers Down flag. I hope that helps you out.

 

[Peter_C]

In some parts of California, dive flags are required by law.

Where are these parts of Cali? I know in Nevada it is a law, but have never heard of it in Cali.

 

[Togalive]

This is easy... your personal dive float should not have an alpha flag as YOU are not a vessel. However, any boat qualifies as a vessel and can fly the alpha flag. In Florida, flying JUST a divers down flag could earn you a citation. That's an FWC rule. Diving operations in the State of Florida, whether they are commercial or private must display a Divers Down flag. They can display any other flags which are appropriate, but they are breaking the law if they don't have a Divers Down flag. I hope that helps you out.

I think then that there is simply a difference between California and Florida law, which is no surprise, I personally would expect Florida to have more diver-conscious laws. However the fact remains that 1) PADI teaches the Alpha pennant to be ok for dive floats, not just boats, 2) The USCG allows the Alpha Pennant to be used on dive floats, and 3) that in some states (I.E CA) there is no legal protection if you fly a diver down flag vs if you fly an Alpha Pennant as was my original point (this is also straight from the CG)

Where are these parts of Cali? I know in Nevada it is a law, but have never heard of it in Cali.

I know that here in CA, in all U.S National Recreation Area lakes there is a minimum $250 ticket if you do not dive with a dive float, or if you move too far off away from one. I've even been at a cove in a lake (Whiskeytown Lake) where we had just finished diving as another group pulled in and a ranger showed up. The conversation went as follows:

He asked us "Hey, you guys with those divers out there?"
We responded "Nope, we just finished, whats up?"
He answered: "Well they aren't diving with a dive float. I'll have to wait till they come back up and give them a ticket."

We talked a bit more, the ranger turned out to be a family friend, but we learned that its common practice for rangers here to watch for diver's bubbles in the absence of a float. If they dont see a float, they wait until the divers surface, sometimes following the bubbles, and give them the ticket. It would be interesting to hear if this practice is the same in all National Parks?