Cochran EMC-16 or EMC-20?

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brianstclair:
Tegg:
If you go into mix, you'll end up getting a VR3 anyways and using the cochran as a "bottom timer".


Why's that? I'm looking into an EMC-20H with the expectation of using it for trimix. PM's fine if you want - don't mean to hijack the thread.

ReefCrew, check out scubatoys.com also. They sell Cochrans (best prices I've found anywhere), and everyone on this board raves about their customer service.

Brian

Some disregard the Cochran's as real dive computers.....in reality they stack up to the others just as well if not better in some regards.....take that comment with a grain of salt and keep in mind that everyone has their preferences.
 
Tegg:
Don't forget to purchase the $300 software and hardware to be able to actually pull the dives off the computer.

Get the cheaper one. Because with the extra $300 you'll end up being just as much as the higher one.

If you go into mix, you'll end up getting a VR3 anyways and using the cochran as a "bottom timer".

I owned the VR3 and got rid of it, for a loss.. I use the EMC-20H and a HS Explorer.. WHen it come to profiles the emc-20h generates a much nicer decomrpession profile and does not penalize you for deeper and longer stops like the VR3..

The EMC-20h handles big dives much better than the VR3..
 
padiscubapro:
I owned the VR3 and got rid of it, for a loss.. I use the EMC-20H and a HS Explorer.. WHen it come to profiles the emc-20h generates a much nicer decomrpession profile and does not penalize you for deeper and longer stops like the VR3..

The EMC-20h handles big dives much better than the VR3..

The biggest problem I have with my cochrans ( I own 2), is not allowing for manual gas switch.

What happens if you are doing 3 days of technical diving. Day 1, you do a 200ft dive with your deco, all good. Then you do another 210ft dive and come to your O2 and it is "gone" (blew disk or drained). You then go to backup tables which is fine. BUT the cochran continues to deco out using the fact that you are on O2. The 3rd dive you do you CANNOT use the cochran because it's tissue loading information will be incorrect because it thought you used O2 for deco and you did not. Thus the rest of the "trip" you will be stuck using tables. Why have a computer then?

The cochran does fine in every other aspect except for when you have to deviate from your plan, then it becomes an expensive bottom timer.
 
Tegg:
The biggest problem I have with my cochrans ( I own 2), is not allowing for manual gas switch.
I agree, and this is my only signifigant criticism of the Cochrans, beside the fact that they do not make the information about their algorythm widely available.

Since a lost gas scenario is one we plan for but rarely need to impliment, perhaps it would be nice if they would allow for a manual switch back to the previous gas by putting a piece of metal (knife tip or shears) accross the contacts. I understand their desire to eliminate buttons, but it would still be nice to allow for this.

I am currently using a 3 gas Gemini ( I do not have training in the use of helium) and you can trick the computer into using the gas you want. Since the gemini is air integrated it switches from gas 1 to gas 2 when you stop breathing your back gas and it notices the pressure stops dropping. It switches to gas 3 when the time and depth benchmarks are both met.

If you loose gas 2 simply continue to breathe your back gas, it will see the pressure drop and compute deco based on that gas. If you loose gas 3 and lets say that is 100% O2 you simply make sure the depth benchmark is set for 20 feet, and when you are at your 20 foot stop you level off at 21 feet, this will force the computer to use gas 2. For the computer to know when you have cleared your deco you would need to stay at the 21 foot stop until the computer completely clears you to the surface.

Of course this would not work as well on an EMC-20H for the gas switch to gas 2 since you would not want to stay 1 foot deeper than your first stop on this gas, but the loss of gas 3 thing would still work. At best this is a somewhat awkward work around, the better option would be to allow for a manual override. I do like the automatic gas switch, one less thing to forget. I have never seen a diver fail to make a planned and necessary gas switch, but I have seen divers make the switch but forget to tell thier computer they did.

Mark Vlahos
 
Tegg:
The biggest problem I have with my cochrans ( I own 2), is not allowing for manual gas switch.

What happens if you are doing 3 days of technical diving. Day 1, you do a 200ft dive with your deco, all good. Then you do another 210ft dive and come to your O2 and it is "gone" (blew disk or drained). You then go to backup tables which is fine. BUT the cochran continues to deco out using the fact that you are on O2. The 3rd dive you do you CANNOT use the cochran because it's tissue loading information will be incorrect because it thought you used O2 for deco and you did not. Thus the rest of the "trip" you will be stuck using tables. Why have a computer then?

The cochran does fine in every other aspect except for when you have to deviate from your plan, then it becomes an expensive bottom timer.

I agree the lack of a manual switch is negative, but its not as bad as you suggest on subsequent dives.. if you clear yourself out on tables using another gas, by the time you surface using an alternate gas you loads (normally) are not radically that different from your projected using you other gas.. The greatest error is if your last gas is oxygen, with other deco gases like 50% the overall error is small

Add to this a surface interval and things get even closer.. with a reasonable SI of 90 minutes, there really is no significant load difference afterwards.. Your next deep dive will end up getting things back in line (there will be a greater error with a shallow dive)

If you use a planning tool like ANDI-Gap, which allows a minute by minute analysis of the dive, you could examine the tissue loading and see what I mean...

and if your really concerned about not doing enough deco, just bump up ther conservatism for the next dive... and go back to your normal settings on the following days dives..
 
Reefcrew, Just contact Joel and discuss what you are looking for and he will be able to set you up with what you need. He has been diving these computers for as long as I can remember and if you ever have a question about them he will get you your answer right than!

Yes, I work with Joel here at Tech Diving Limited but no one but no one as the experence he has on these computers. He was doing alot work behind the scenes with Cochan on these computers.

If you have any questions please feel free to contact me also....

Regards
Randy
 
After doing a bit more looking at these comptuers it would seem the only diff between them is software.

I am correct in thinking this? If the only diff is software, can you upgrade in the future? Say I bought the base EMC-20 with single Notrox, can I upgrade to trimix or do I have to buy a whloe new unit?
 
ReefCrew:
After doing a bit more looking at these comptuers it would seem the only diff between them is software.

I am correct in thinking this? If the only diff is software, can you upgrade in the future? Say I bought the base EMC-20 with single Notrox, can I upgrade to trimix or do I have to buy a whloe new unit?

You are not correct. The EMC-16 will not support He (trimix), the EMC-20H will. The EMC-16 is nitrox only. The algorithms are also slightly different - the EMC-16 tracks 16 "compartments" and the EMC-20H tracks 20. I believe the software is actually the same - Analyst - for both.

The EMC-20H can be purchased with various gas options, which can be upgraded at a later time. So for example, you could buy it with support for one nitrox mix only, and later upgrade it to support three nitrox/trimix gases. I would imagine the EMC-16, while Nitrox only, might be able to be upgraded in terms of the number of mixtures supported.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Brian
 
reef crew

yes you can upgrade your unit at a later date. as mine has been updated twice (i have a old gemini plus without the intelligent wrist unit). I will be upgrading my computer here in the next year as i will be moving into some more advanced diving and will need the newer options of the 20H.

how thats a change scubatoys used to not be a dealer as there where only 1 or 2 dealers in the north texas area.

FWIW

Tooth
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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