Cold Water Diving Equipment?

[simbrooks]

There have been many new threads recently about ice and cold water diving - possibly something to do with it starting to get colder up north - winter i think they call it (which we dont see down here!).

After this cold snap (why would you pass up spending winter in FL?) we are thinking of moving up north and getting acclimatized to chillier clims – hopefully the northwest (Washington state area). I don’t know the exact water temperature range there, but I am sure it will be a little colder than here in the 70-80 range inland and slightly lower on the coast. We are aiming at getting ice and dry suit training when the time comes along, but there is not much call for that around here. I know we might be mad to move away from such a place in most peoples eyes, but seriously it gets way too hot here in the summer (May-Oct, almost half the year) for a Brit overseas!

We currently don’t have any of our own gear and renting already is a financial chore as the money its all being burned up with no equipment to show for it. I have read other threads on buying vs renting and understand that conunderum, so please don’t go there. I am after general info on what type of gear is good up there – I have read magazine reviews (again there is that chance of bias and I’m not wanting to send this off in that tangent either) and have talked with the people in the dive stores down here – but they aren’t as clued up about such things as they cater for people diving in this near tropical climate. In the meantime, in an effort to get some equipment that might work up where we hope to move I was wondering what views there were about materials, types, known good brands/models that are designed for these types of purposes – colder waters, but also could work whilst down here in FL – I imagine that most equipment works pretty well down here most of the time. The main things, were for regs and then as a side issue if there are any special requirements for BC’s – I cant see that much difference for them in colder waters compared the freezing problems of regs, but please correct me if I am wrong. Later again I am sure I will come into the problem of which dry suit to buy, but that will definitely be a choice using local dealers up in the north and when money is available for it!!

 

[boney]

Well one thing that I was corrected on when trying to help someone out in terms of cold-water BC's is in cold water you will need a slightly larger BC as it has to fit ontop of your wet/dry suit. If you can when you get to the LDS see if you can try on a suit that you are thinking of buying and then slap on the BC afterwards. How good is the fit?
As for brands/makes and models... that can be fairly subjective as there are a lot of people on the board who dive with a lot of different stuff so you will get a lot of different answers here.
Other than just cold water equipment, you may also want to consider if the equipment is Nitrox ready as you may want to take a Nitrox course later on down the road and you probably don't want to splurge again for another set of regs.
Another option is to go with a backpack and wing setup, that is getting very popular now...
Hope this kinda helps somehow...

 

[simbrooks]

Thanks Boney,

to be honest, on looking around the backpack option does look one of the better, i like idea of the freedom and lack of stomach squeeze it gives compared to the jackets - trying to work on renting a backpack on the next ocean dive from the local store owner!

As for sizing, if we were just in coldish water would a 7mm be that much thicker than the 3mm i have down here, thinking about my size (6'3", 250lbs, 44in chest) the difference would only be about 2in circumferentially (46in) compared to my 3mm wetsuit. I know the drysuit can billow up to be some kind of balloon which is certainly larger, but if i am buying one that can adjust down a little now, surely there is enough room for adjustment in a large size (what i typically need!) to fit a modest drysuit?

As for nitrox, another course slated up for sometime next year along with AOW and rescue! We are going to steadily plod through these courses and get some diving in down here. We might move next spring, but almost as likely the following one (2005), plenty of time for courses, actual dives and the like, i was just enquiring as a matter of an inquizitive mind and for future reference in thinking of purchasing some gear next year. As for the subjective views, i know that is almost certainly what i will get here, BUT experience with equipment up there is something i dont have and a heads up is always welcome on such matters, also just general thoughts on the type of materials (i guess all metal parts - how does that work with a diaphragm though?) and features that might be handy (environmental protection gel was something i read the other day).

Thanks again, Simon

 

[MISFIT DIVER]

For what its worth SIMS, I feel your pain. I lived in Tampa for 25 years before moving to Ohio. I thought the changes in seasons would be nice. Wrong, it is 25 and snowing today. i will take the heat.
To try to address some of your questions, i would first reccomend getting a drysuit if possiable. I tried to 7mm trip when I first moved up here and it was a challange. They are very big and bulky and lets face it, if the water is cold you will get cold. I have logged almost 100 dives this year and dove dry on everone of them except for out trip to Roatan. just seems to me that once you have dove dry, you do not want to dive any other way. As for gear, I normally dive a BP and 55lb Halcyon wings. If I am diving a BC, i wear a Seaquest Balance. I am 6'2" and 230lbs and it gives me pletty of lift, in a drysuit,with a pony. In my opion the best back inflate. I wear it in warm water and in cold I have Sherwood blizzard regs and scuba pro s600 regs. I have never had a problem with them, in any temp water. Hoods and gloves are a big thing. i wear a 7mm harveys titanium and my head stays pretty warm. Gloves, your hands get wet and you get cold. The undergarment I think is the most import thing to keep you warm. I use a weezle and it is fantastic. I'm sure most people will give you a lot of ideas here but you will have to figure what is going to work best for you. keep in mind, diving in cold water is a whole world different then warm water. i would take it a little at a time until you get comfortable. Just my opion. Hope it helped.

 

[simbrooks]

Thanks Misfit,

i do understand your concerns regarding out of the water, i am not sure that the area we are aiming at is going to be quite as cold as Ohio, hoping Seattle, where at least there is the coastal effect to keep the land warmer during the winter! I come from the south of England, whilst not cold in itself, its not that hot most of the time either and water temps arent all that hot either. Not sure what water temps to expect for PNW, so not sure if it will be 7mm or dry suit all year - again looking for input here from all those who are in that area - i know there are a few because of the other posts i have read (maybe the thread isnt attracting their attention?). Well anyway, needless to say, the south is too hot, so northward we go.

Thanks for the suggestions, after further reading i think a BP/wings is a good option to allow for flexibility of diving environment and has that advantages i stated above of comfort etc. I have checked further on the equipment pages and found countless examples of items i could get as regs and bc's that would cope, maybe i should have posted there? As for acclimating, hopefully the move in mid to late spring and diving thru early fall should be just warm enough to get a taste, but not as cold as winter might get and we can get into it slowly - i know that first winter will be the worst for above and in water activity after getting used to being in this state!

I had not fully considered the undergarments with regard to drysuits, how much 'fatter' do you get with a dry suit and undergarments compared to a 7mm? I think my calc above was a little off for drysuits! Essentially what i am asking is if you can adjust a bc enough for both cold and warmer waters with drysuit or thinner wetsuits - or would i be best if i were to go for the BP/wings to just get a couple, one rigged for cold and the other for warm?

There is plenty for me to continue to consider and plenty of time to find out answers, however i may just wait out the time down here and buy the gear from the locals wherever we end up.

 

[Boogie711]

Not a backpack. That's what you take your books to public school in. It's a backplate.

Secondly, yes - a backplate is very easy to adjust and it shouldn't be a problem switching between a drysuit and a 3mm. What's MORE of a concern is the material of the plate - if you're diving dry, chances are good you're going to want a heavier plate (ie - Stainless Steel) especially if you're diving a single tank configuration. If you're diving with just a 3mm suit, a stainless steel plate may be too heavy for you and screw up your trim.

The good news is - plates themselves are ridiculously cheap. Chances are good you can find an Aluminum BP/Wing with a harness kit for $60 or so, especially on E-Bay.

As to exposure gear - yeah, think on drysuits. A 7mm will keep you relatively warm, once. On a repetitive dive, it's starting to get miserable. Especially if you have to peel out of a wet 7mm, or worse - get into a wet 7mm, in the snow. A drysuit is a larger investment, but will keep you warm and dry both in the water and out.

In terms of regulators, don't worry about getting anything "Nitrox ready." Chances are good you won't have to worry about it because you're only breathing something less than 40% O2 anyway. The only thing you're going to want to avoid is Titanium. I would thoroughly recommend, as would a very large percentage of divers on this board, an Apeks. For the money, I don't know if you can do better than an ATX50/DS4 combo. Dry sealed, environmentally sealed diaphragm regulators that breath as well at 130 feet as they do in 15.

 

[Wingtip]

Water temps holding around 50 in the Sound proper, 46-48 closer out to the Pacific, 45 or so in the ocean. Air temps hovering in the 40s for the most part, upper 30s early and again soon after dark.

Drysuit highly recommended, I did about 40 dives wet in a 7mm during the summer months and was just totally depleted by the time I had packed everything back up to the car. I'd recommend a good light second, cold water seems to kill alot of the light, especially in the summer when the algae blooms. As for the backpack (back-inflate or bp) highly recommended, they are a little more adjustable when you switch up for a tropical trip. If you decide to go for the BP route I'd recommend an AL bp for trips to warm water destinations.

Lots of shorediving here, plenty of good sea life in the forms of octopus, wolf-eels, seals and the occasional shark. Tons of invert life too, fun on every dive. Not much in the way of ice diving unless you look at inland lakes, which is probably fun but I haven't run out of saltwater sites to dive yet.

 

[sharkmasterbc]

Dry is your best option for PNW diving. I agree with other posts about rep. dives, if you choose to go in a wetie it's just too freekin cold during SI. When we teach OW here in BC the only thing which helps during the winter months is bringing a lot of warm water to pour down your suit before and after the dive.
I dove wet a few times when I started CW diving but as soon as I got into a dry suit there was no turning back. I use Bare NexGen suit with CT 200 undergarment. If the dive is going to be longer than 40 min I put on an extra layer of polar fleece and wool socks for added thermal protection. Hypothermia is not a good thing. I have not yet purchased dry gloves but most of the people I dive with swear by them - dry = warm.
There are a few choices when it comes to dry suits
1.) Neoprene - Good because it provides some protection from the cold - less undergarments. If you are planning to go below 100fsw then neoprene will compress and loose thermal protection and also become negative, this means that you will need a few xtra lbs to get down but when your suit compresss you may have an issue with overweighting(although easily compensated with your dry suit or BC.
2.) Crushed neoprene - This provides no thermal protection on its own, therefore we wear undergarments. Good because you can layer according to temp. Also more freedom of movement in a "bag suit"
3.) Trylaminate - more expensive than crushed neoprene, same idea with undergarments but a bit more durable.
4.) Vulcanized Rubber - This is what the comm. divers use because they are almost tear proof and if you do happen to get a leak they are very easy to fix on site.
There are many diff styles of dry suits with zippers on the back, front, across the shoulder, some have zippers in the crotch area for easy access during SI, others you have to peel off to relive yourself.
Hope that helps.

 

[simbrooks]

Boogie -
Thanks for the correction on the BP, i guess my mind was elsewhere at work! I will check out what is going on with ebay and the various manufacturers/supliers i have read of elsewhere (Halcyon, Oxycheq and Riverite to name a few). As for regs, who makes the ATX50/DS4? Any other suggestions on a similar line by either the same or other manufacturers?

Wingtip-
I hate the idea of the outlay for the dry-suit, but i am sure i will also get a reasonable amount of use in the UK with it when we go back over there. Those temps are a little colder than i was used to playing in over there though! Is that the typical current temp, does the annual range rise above mid 40's - 50? I understand the air temps are reasonable most of the year though! Thanks for tips on that and for whetting my appetite for the nature around there!

Sharkmaster-
Not too clued up on the drysuit front, what kind of price is that set up that you have? (Nexgen/CT200). Also from the 4 options mentioned, any good examples of those and manufacturer names etc? Also what kind of price range is there for each of those types (typical, not the astronomically plush type!). I know those are pretty opened ended questions, but i would like to know what i am letting myself in for up there! This sport isnt cheap, but with a reasonable planned budget, hopefully it can be affordable with the rest of costs of living.

Many thanks to all 3 of you, i was beginning to think people were passing this thread by!

 

[Wingtip]

Air temps in the summer can be in the mid 70s or better, I was thinking currently. Highest water temp I recorded this summer was 53, that was in a protected bay that doesn't exchange much water with the tidal flow.

Another choice for drysuits is compressed neoprene, this is what I'm diving now. Same thermal property as 5mm but pressed into a 2.5mm neoprene suit. No compression at depth either as it's already compressed.

I have seen drysuit setups that include undergarm and pool orientation for as little as $700. These are Apollo neoprene suits. You can spend over 2K for those "astronomically plush" ones. The apollo is a decent suit, there's other entry level drysuits for under a grand out there.

There's also lots of them exchanged in the used market, either at discount divers supply or online, on bulletin boards at the shops, etc.