Coming back with TOO MUCH air??

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Just a question, " When you plan a road trip do you worry about 1 Gallon of gas? ".

A gal. of gas cost about the same as a tank fill.

The difference is when you run out of gas in your vehicle, you can get out and walk.

However, when you run out of GAS in your SCUBA tank(s) it could become a bigger issue.

As a college student you probably ride a bike.

Why not just free dive the 2nd shallow dive?

i don't go on road trips :( and if i was the one that payed for my gas id probably walk to half the places i go.

trust me my yearly budget for everything i could possible want to do is like $1000, if i do 40 dives = ~$120 more that i would save just by using 1 tank for every 2 dives. its a lot to me.
 
Why don't you find a shop or boat that needs help filling tanks?

Then you can off set your costs.
 
Try diving deeper. You will consume air at a faster rate the deeper you dive. Then you won't have to worry about a tank that is "too full" at the end of a dive.
 
My initial, knee-jerk reaction was, "That's a bad idea." And then I sat down and tried to think through WHY I thought it was a bad idea. After all, people with a higher level of training not infrequently dive with a bottom stage to extend dive time, or because the gas in their main supply is not one they want to use on the second dive. So why does the idea proposed in the OP not sit well with me?

Well, I came up with a few things. First off, if you are going to include your pony bottle in your gas planning, you have to think about how you have that pony bottle configured. A lot of people fasten their pony bottle to their primary tank in the back, and don't include a pressure gauge that measures what's in it in their setup. If you are going to include the bottle in your gas plan, you HAVE to have a way to know how much gas is in it. Yes, you think you know what it had when you got into the water, but if the reg has had a slow leak you haven't noticed, you may have much less now. People who use bottom stages sling them so that the valve and regulator are visible and easily reached, and put some kind of pressure measuring device on the regulator so they know what's in the bottle.

But that brings up another issue -- people who use bottom stages, use them FIRST. The gas you have on your back is securely attached to you, whereas gas that you have in a sling tank can be lost. (This is the downside of not clamping the bottle to your primary tank.) So you START on the auxiliary tank, and go to backgas if you need to -- although a lot of the time, the plan is simply to execute the dive on the slung tank, and not touch backgas at all. But it is your reserve, and you know you have it with you. And starting on your auxiliary tank doesn't solve your problem of avoiding fills.

In recreational diving, it's generally not a good idea to create a dive plan that PLANS on someone running low on, or out of gas in a supply and having to switch. Cave divers do this -- they breathe down stages until they are nearly or actually empty, and switch -- but they also have extensive training on how to do switching procedures, how to watch multiple gas supplies, and on coping with having a regulator out of their mouth or dry for a period of time. In addition, they often do gas switches where their teammates can watch them, and everyone on the team is extensively schooled on air-sharing and donating quickly and efficiently . . . because we all know that probably the most frequent cause of an out-of-gas situation for a cave diver is not that they are out of gas, but that they do not have quick enough access to whatever gas supply they do have. (In other words, something in a gas switch got messed up temporarily, and they need somebody else's regulator for a minute or two to get it sorted out.)

At any rate, I came to the conclusion that I really did have enough reasons to say that, for a recreational diver without further training, a gas plan that involves a planned gas switch is probably a bad idea, and that doing it simply to avoid paying for a fill is a bad reason.
 
Try diving deeper. You will consume air at a faster rate the deeper you dive. Then you won't have to worry about a tank that is "too full" at the end of a dive.

its about time i take my advance class, but at least 4 more months untill i do, im doing shallow dives.
 
My initial, knee-jerk reaction was, "That's a bad idea." And then I sat down and tried to think through WHY I thought it was a bad idea. After all, people with a higher level of training not infrequently dive with a bottom stage to extend dive time, or because the gas in their main supply is not one they want to use on the second dive. So why does the idea proposed in the OP not sit well with me?

Well, I came up with a few things. First off, if you are going to include your pony bottle in your gas planning, you have to think about how you have that pony bottle configured. A lot of people fasten their pony bottle to their primary tank in the back, and don't include a pressure gauge that measures what's in it in their setup. If you are going to include the bottle in your gas plan, you HAVE to have a way to know how much gas is in it. Yes, you think you know what it had when you got into the water, but if the reg has had a slow leak you haven't noticed, you may have much less now. People who use bottom stages sling them so that the valve and regulator are visible and easily reached, and put some kind of pressure measuring device on the regulator so they know what's in the bottle.

But that brings up another issue -- people who use bottom stages, use them FIRST. The gas you have on your back is securely attached to you, whereas gas that you have in a sling tank can be lost. (This is the downside of not clamping the bottle to your primary tank.) So you START on the auxiliary tank, and go to backgas if you need to -- although a lot of the time, the plan is simply to execute the dive on the slung tank, and not touch backgas at all. But it is your reserve, and you know you have it with you. And starting on your auxiliary tank doesn't solve your problem of avoiding fills.

In recreational diving, it's generally not a good idea to create a dive plan that PLANS on someone running low on, or out of gas in a supply and having to switch. Cave divers do this -- they breathe down stages until they are nearly or actually empty, and switch -- but they also have extensive training on how to do switching procedures, how to watch multiple gas supplies, and on coping with having a regulator out of their mouth or dry for a period of time. In addition, they often do gas switches where their teammates can watch them, and everyone on the team is extensively schooled on air-sharing and donating quickly and efficiently . . . because we all know that probably the most frequent cause of an out-of-gas situation for a cave diver is not that they are out of gas, but that they do not have quick enough access to whatever gas supply they do have. (In other words, something in a gas switch got messed up temporarily, and they need somebody else's regulator for a minute or two to get it sorted out.)

At any rate, I came to the conclusion that I really did have enough reasons to say that, for a recreational diver without further training, a gas plan that involves a planned gas switch is probably a bad idea, and that doing it simply to avoid paying for a fill is a bad reason.

IDK,... i think your going a little over board with your analysis, as correct as it is. Ive dived a few times with my pony slung before and im do not feel the configuration is difficult to swim with or deal with. also, im not going to be under any incredible stress to switch air supplies, its a OP dive at 30 feet. how hard is it to do a simple reg swap? its a basic skill for all dive levels, right? Take the reg in your mouth out, put the other 3rd reg in, clear, put away your main reg so it doesn't hang or get cought in anything. the plan for one of these dives isn't that special ether; 205 min max no deco, thats 3.41 hours, i normally dont include surface interval (to short) Not even if i breath extremely efficiently could i go into that from just 1 al80 tank and the st40. Granted if i do the a deeper dive before hand, it may get close. but i not going to use the pony or extending my dive, it would just be the little bit of air i would of already had if i used the full tank. i could easily just say that i go down with my half full tank and just surface at 500psi and do a surface swim back to the boat. but y do that if i already have a means for getting back without surfacing?

you clearly or more experienced than me. and make pretty valid points. but they just seem very... exaggerated. Is there something increasingly important that im overlooking?

BTW i use a pressure gauge on the pony reg, it sits almost square in my face when i dive with it slung.
 
Lately I've been having some frustration with the amount of air im coming back with on my dives. im am an open water diver and use AL80's. One the last 12 or so dives Ive done, Ive been coming back with 2100-1800 psi on more or less 60-40 min of down time any were from 30 - 60 feet. I value the air in my tanks alot but really dislike having to pay to refill a tank that is 2/3 full.

Does any ever use just one tank for a trip out? Is that a good idea. The only reason i hesitate is because of that "What if" should happen that i end up needing more air. How fashionable is it to use a pony on a shallow dive boat, Just in case I need some extra air?

Ermaclob,

If you will continue to dive in the 30-60 fsw range, you might purchase a second Al 80 and an equalizing whip. Begin the dive trip with both Al 80's full. Use one of these 80's for the initial dive. During the surface interval, equalize the cylinder you used for the first dive with the full cylinder. For the repetitive dive, use the first cylinder again. The next time you do one of these 30-60 fsw two-tank charters, fill the first cylinder and use it on the first dive, but plan to use the second cylinder as you left it from the previous trip for the repetitive dive.

This solution has you paying for three tank fills (instead of four) every two trips. It also provides you with two full-sized cylinders to use when you begin doing deeper repetitive diving. And it leaves you with a "permanent" piece of gear (the equalizing whip) that can come in very handy at times.

What do you think?

Safe Diving,

rx7diver
 
Ermaclob,

If you will continue to dive in the 30-60 fsw range, you might purchase a second Al 80 and an equalizing whip. Begin the dive trip with both Al 80's full. Use one of these 80's for the initial dive. During the surface interval, equalize the cylinder you used for the first dive with the full cylinder. For the repetitive dive, use the first cylinder again. The next time you do one of these 30-60 fsw two-tank charters, fill the first cylinder and use it on the first dive, but plan to use the second cylinder as you left it from the previous trip for the repetitive dive.

This solution has you paying for three tank fills (instead of four) every two trips. It also provides you with two full-sized cylinders to use when you begin doing deeper repetitive diving. And it leaves you with a "permanent" piece of gear (the equalizing whip) that can come in very handy at times.

What do you think?

Safe Diving,

rx7diver

i have 2 AL80s already

this sound like an neat way of doing things, if i m understanding correctly

your saying us the whip to put both tanks = to each other after ever dive right. so if i come back with 2000 psi and do this ill have 2500 in each tank after words right.

the only problem i have with this is that it would require me to spend like 150 $ on the whip. also all thought id pay for only i fill a dive its leaves my tanks at 2500 max more or less, i wouldn't like this for when i do beach diving, thats when i have full control of how long the dive lasts.

the thing is that i already have the equipment to achieve what im trying to do. there's no need to buy more expensive stuff.. although ill keep the fill whip in mind, thanks for that suggestion
 
if i m understanding correctly your saying us the whip to put both tanks = to each other after ever dive right. so if i come back with 2000 psi and do this ill have 2500 in each tank after words right.

Yes.


the only problem i have with this is that it would require me to spend like 150 $ on the whip.

Yes. A lot of $. (Can you source one cheaper on-line?) But you'll keep it forever, and you will never have to pay additional to have it serviced or maintained. Believe me, when you *need* one, no one has one handy!


... although ill keep the fill whip in mind, thanks for that suggestion

You're welcome. Safe Diving!
 
ermaclob, everything seems simple, until it isn't.

If you are slinging a bottle with a gauge on it, you've met some of my objections. But I'm still not happy with the idea of breathing your backgas down to nothing and switching to the auxiliary bottle as a matter of course. Suppose you breathe that 80 on your back down, and you go to your pony reg, and the diaphragms gotten folded and the reg is now breathing extremely wet. You don't have enough gas in the 80 to get back to the boat, and your auxiliary supply isn't functional.

Yes, I can come up with "Little House on the Prairie" nightmare scenarios to make ANY setup seem unwise, but the basic principle of using the smallest gas supply up and leaving the bigger one as the reserve is pretty well respected in the technical diving community, because Murphy loves divers, and it's always best to leave him the fewest chinks to worm his way into your plan.

It sounds as though you have decided that your strategy is one you are going to use, so I hope it works well for you, and you don't run into any problems with it. I wouldn't do it.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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