Computers with non-conservative algorithm.

[BoltSnap]

I don't like liberal algorithm for my diving. I like middle of the road to conservative. I get more conservative with colder temperatures and with increased number of diving (dive vacation type of scenario). I never had a problem with Suunto's "conservatism" for at least 15 years now.

 

[ajduplessis]

Hello, I am looking for a new computer with a non conservative logarithm. Recommendations?

Scubapro Digital 330

 

[Alastor]

Scubapro Digital 330

With exhausted battery is even less conservative !

 

[tbone1004]

I don't like liberal algorithm for my diving. I like middle of the road to conservative. I get more conservative with colder temperatures and with increased number of diving (dive vacation type of scenario). I never had a problem with Suunto's "conservatism" for at least 15 years now.

they're conservatism isn't the problem I have, it's the fact that they don't publish what the penalties are for doing things like rapid ascents, short surface intervals, etc. and that is the problem I have with that algorithm. Same thing I told Deepblu when they asked me to be an ambassador. Give me something that I can replicate in a dive planner and understand what is going on and I don't really care about the conservatism. The best computer on the market for recreational divers right now is the Shearwater Perdix running Rec. Nitrox mode. It straight up gives you the 3 preprogrammed gradient factors that are good enough for recreational diving to NDL's or light deco, has every feature except AI but no one really has a good AI computer out right now anyway, certainly not a cost effective one, and the Perdix really isn't that expensive, especially when compared to comparable computers on the market.

$850 gets you bluetooth divelog uploads to your computer or cellphone, full use with trimix/ccr, digital compass, stupid easy to read screen, user replaceable AA batteries, option of 2 different algorithms each with user controlled conservatism, small form factor, legendary customer service. All for half the cost of the only comparable computer from Suunto *with AI and no transmitter, but with no control over your algorithm*, and $200 less than the Oceanic/now Aqualung VTX *again that have AI but no transmitter, and much less control over your algorithm. I wouldn't buy either of them now though because Oceanic sold their computer manufacturer to Aqualung, so I would guess that the VTX is on it's last legs on the market so Aqualung can get their own computers brought in.

Cave Adventurers - Shearwater Perdix - Marianna, Florida USA - Never Undersold!

 

[BoltSnap]

You are talking about a recreational computer for the average recreational diver. You can get an Oceanic computer that has everything a recreational diver needs plus more for less than $300. All you said about verifying or replication is totally unnecessary and down right confusing to the greater majority of recreational divers. Oceanic has additional conservatism settings (as does most computers out there). You want to call them GF or anything else, that is up to you, but the more understandable and easier for recreational divers to comprehend without too much trouble is calling it "conservatism setting." As for AI, there are plenty of good AI computers that people use and are good and reliable. YOu are totally against AI per your previous posts all over SB so this matter isn't relevant to you.

You are making so many inferences and speculations on what is going to stay and what isn't without any basis at all. You are amazing as always

 

[tbone1004]

I'm not against AI, I'm against the current AI computers on the market because none of them are really great computers to begin with and they are priced at insane premiums for a very simple piece of technology. I very much want WAI to come out with reasonable prices and smaller transmitters. If the transmitters come out for ~$150/transmitter and the computer is ~$1000, then I will purchase a computer with at least 4 transmitters on it

There are brilliant computers out there that are cheap, and I firmly believe in them, *except the Zoop*, but you can get a Geo 2.0 for just over $300 right now, and for recreational diving that's a no brainer. It's good enough, just go into it with the understanding that you are 100% placing your DCS risk in the hands of the computer because you have no control. Do most divers understand how it works? Of course not because most course directors don't know how it works so how can the divers be expected to, but my whole point here was that @acsherwood is asking for a non-conservative algorithm computer and if you are going to purchase a computer that is "non-conservative" or "liberal" then you have to understand why, and how liberal you really want that computer to be. Oceanic doesn't really tell you on either of their algorithms, no one does unless they are using VPM, or true Buhlmann ZHL-16 with published gradient factors. Those computers right now are limited to the Ratio, Shearwater, Liquivision *horrible company and horrible computers, don't buy their stuff*, Seabear *though don't buy one now because Scubapro botched that acquisition hard...*, and the Nitek Q. There may be some others out there, but I can't think of them right now. The Nitek Q is currently available for $400, has a digital compass, CCR/trimix support, customizeable algorithm, not a bad screen, and dive log upload *though Dive Rite botched the software hard so you have to use 3rd party for logging. Keep in mind for log uploading that the cheap computers don't come with this built in, you have to buy a ~$100 proprietary USB cable, so if you want to log your dives, make sure to factor that into the purchase cost of the computer*. Unfortunately the only computer that is able to do that is the Eon Steel which is $1500, and each transmitter is $450, and that's ridiculous.

 

[Steve_C]

I am about as easy dive rec diver as you can get (for a NC diver). Dives 100 ft or less 95% of the time, within NDL 95% of the time. Within NDL of at least one computer 99.8% of the time. Dove a zoop + Aeris for several years and now have a zoop + Scubapro. After a couple hundred dives on the zoop I will have to agree with tbone. If I am being penalized I would like to know why. On one pair of dives the zoop will be pretty close to the scubapro on dive 2, on the second pair of dives it can differ by 10-15 minutes of NDL. I would like to know why. Is it a few minutes of SI? Is it a bit of a sawtooth profile. deck - bottom -back to deck - down in hold - back to deck - up to top deck. Whatever it is would be useful to know.

One thing I seem to have noticed is that the Zoop penalizes real slow initial ascents at least at first. Aeris and Scubapro will both be upping my NDL right away and the Zoop does not do it near as quickly.

 

[uncfnp]

Hello, I am looking for a new computer with a non conservative logarithm. Recommendations?

This is easy. Based on your sole criteria, look at the Oceanic line of computers and pick the one the suits your price range and features.

 

[stuartv]

There may be some others out there, but I can't think of them right now. The Nitek Q is currently available for $400, has a digital compass, CCR/trimix support, customizeable algorithm, not a bad screen, and dive log upload *though Dive Rite botched the software hard so you have to use 3rd party for logging. Keep in mind for log uploading that the cheap computers don't come with this built in, you have to buy a ~$100 proprietary USB cable, so if you want to log your dives, make sure to factor that into the purchase cost of the computer*. Unfortunately the only computer that is able to do that is the Eon Steel which is $1500, and each transmitter is $450, and that's ridiculous.

The Hollis TX-1 is full trimix-capable with Buhlmann w/Gradient Factors, and it supports AI.

I emailed LeisurePro a few weeks ago and they were offering the TX1 for $450 or $725 with the AI transmitter. The $450 price includes a nice elastic wrist strap, a bungee mount, a decent little carrying case, and the data cable.

I would absolutely recommend the TX1 for $450 to anyone considering the Nitek Q at $400. And I think it's an absolute no-brainer over the DG03.

 

[BoltSnap]

just go into it with the understanding that you are 100% placing your DCS risk in the hands of the computer because you have no control.

And so??? You are trusting your regulator to deliver air to you, your BC for BC and so on. What control do you want over computers and over algorithms? Are you going to re-write their algorithms or make your own computer? This is absolute nonsense. It just you making up fudge just to stand out and waste the OP's time and not reply to him with what he needs to know.

Do most divers understand how it works? Of course not because most course directors don't know how it works so how can the divers be expected to

The OP did not ask you in this thread about how computers work or ask you show off and pontificate about this or that. You are putting so much into the matter that you have gone completely way off topic with nonsense that has nothing to do with the OP request.

if you are going to purchase a computer that is "non-conservative" or "liberal" then you have to understand why, and how liberal you really want that computer to be.

Again, you are grandstanding here and using verbiage just to throw off the OP and make it confusing to all yet you have no useful contribution at all.

The OP wants a "liberal" computer that isn't on the conservative side of deco calculations. We all know what computers are using a "conservative" deco algorithm with many SB members complaining about them (Suunto, Mares and Cressisub) while many know that Oceanic with its dual algorithms give you the choice and ALL of this is explained in simple details on the Oceanic computer page. Enough details for the average consumer to give him the necessary understanding to make a decision on purchasing and using dive computers NOT to design and build his own freaking dive computer, this is left to the specialist not the consumer!!