Couple questions on a pony bottle for bail out

[dumpsterDiver]

You bought a 30 cu-ft tank for diving in 50-90 ft? Way too big and heavy and cumbersome for your intended use..(in my opinion) Try it out, tell us if you are going to be trading it in or not.

I see no reason to add a hose and swivel and a big gage to the set up; these types of gages work well and are very cheap...


Pony Bottle Gauge "PSI"

 

[Sonic04GT]

If you truly need the level of capacity that a 30cf pony provides then personally I would return the pony, pull the wing off your ranger and stick it on a back plate and just pick up a second full size tank and a doubles manifold instead of going with a pony. That would cost a fair amount, but the wing is usually the most expensive part of switching to a BP&W anyways and you are lucky enough to have one that is doubles compatible and can be attached to a plate already.
Even if you have to put off getting the second tank and dive with the BP&W with your single HP100 and no pony for now I think you would be on a better course for the long term.

13cf is my personal cutoff for where they stop being pony bottles and start being lopsided doubles anyways.

I went head long down the wrong road in gear buying because I didn't look at where I wanted to be, and instead looked at what I could afford right now and what piece I wanted next. That meant I have wasted $100's on gear that doesn't work for me anymore. The fact that you have a top dollar BCD with a basic (though good quality) reg kinda suggests that you don't have a clear course and have been adding things as you go along.

Thank you for the response but I have no intentions on diving doubles or getting into that type of diving any time in the near future. I bought the Ranger because I like the buoyancy characteristics of a back inflated BCD vs. the jacket style with my heavier steel tank, and it was on sale at the time for $510 out the door at my LDS.

As for the regulator, I'm not sure exactly what you're referencing. I bought my Atomic B2 because I wanted a quality regulator for a reasonable price ($600ish) back when I first got into diving in 2008, and at that time I was diving the Oceanic Probe LX jacket style BCD. Then, a couple years down the line I decided I no longer wanted a jacket-style BCD, bought the Ranger as mentioned above and haven't looked back since.

Maybe it's my lack of experience but I don't at all see the comparison between the two pieces of equipment. My course has always been to comfortably have fun recreational diving. The reason I bought a pony tank is because I have always wanted to be self-reliant and maybe do an occasional solo dive.

Later on down the line I might look into some basic wreck courses but nothing really serious that warrants the "tech" name. Been diving 6 years now and those views haven't really changed.

An easy breathing reg, tanks with negative bouyancy/plenty of air, a well balanced BCD, and now a little extra air in case things abruptly go down hill fit my intentions fairly well.

---------- Post added June 18th, 2014 at 02:15 PM ----------

You bought a 30 cu-ft tank for diving in 50-90 ft? Way too big and heavy and cumbersome for your intended use..(in my opinion) Try it out, tell us if you are going to be trading it in or not.

I see no reason to add a hose and swivel and a big gage to the set up; these types of gages work well and are very cheap...


Pony Bottle Gauge "PSI"

50-90 is the average range with 60-80 being a little more common off the coast of Palm Beach, FL. That's not to say I haven't been 100-120 a dozen times and I figured the extra gas could pay off in those situations.

I didn't want anything smaller than a 19. Compared to the 19cf, the 30cf is 3/4" taller and just under an inch wider in diameter. The weight didn't really concern me as I assume it won't be very burdensome underwater. As for the gauge, I think I agree and I'm likely going with the Dive Gear Express button gauge shown on the previous page. I like the clean face.

Trade me for a 19cf if my theories don't play out?

http://kaplanscuba.com/product-specs/luxfer-product-specifications.html

 

[eelnoraa]

.... I use a DIN 1st stage and an inline shut off valve so I can keep the valve on throughout the dive without losing any air by accidentally purging.

Any reason why you want to keep the valve open but use inline shut off? Isn't closing the value with out inline shut off archieve the same function?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Thank you for the response but I have no intentions on diving doubles or getting into that type of diving any time in the near future. I bought the Ranger because I like the buoyancy characteristics of a back inflated BCD vs. the jacket style with my heavier steel tank, and it was on sale at the time for $510 out the door at my LDS.

As for the regulator, I'm not sure exactly what you're referencing. I bought my Atomic B2 because I wanted a quality regulator for a reasonable price ($600ish) back when I first got into diving in 2008, and at that time I was diving the Oceanic Probe LX jacket style BCD. Then, a couple years down the line I decided I no longer wanted a jacket-style BCD, bought the Ranger as mentioned above and haven't looked back since.

Maybe it's my lack of experience but I don't at all see the comparison between the two pieces of equipment. My course has always been to comfortably have fun recreational diving. The reason I bought a pony tank is because I have always wanted to be self-reliant and maybe do an occasional solo dive.

Later on down the line I might look into some basic wreck courses but nothing really serious that warrants the "tech" name. Been diving 6 years now and those views haven't really changed.

An easy breathing reg, tanks with negative bouyancy/plenty of air, a well balanced BCD, and now a little extra air in case things abruptly go down hill fit my intentions fairly well.

---------- Post added June 18th, 2014 at 02:15 PM ----------



50-90 is the average range with 60-80 being a little more common off the coast of Palm Beach, FL. That's not to say I haven't been 100-120 a dozen times and I figured the extra gas could pay off in those situations.

I didn't want anything smaller than a 19. Compared to the 19cf, the 30cf is 3/4" taller and just under an inch wider in diameter. The weight didn't really concern me as I assume it won't be very burdensome underwater. As for the gauge, I think I agree and I'm likely going with the Dive Gear Express button gauge shown on the previous page. I like the clean face.

Trade me for a 19cf if my theories don't play out?

Kaplan Scuba - Wholesale Distributors of Aluminum Scuba Tanks and Underwater Dive Lights - Luxfer Product Specs

I have two 30-cuft pony bottles, I use them for stage bottles for deco for deeper dives. I use a 13 cu-ft ponyfor redundancy at those depths where you dive .. it is more than adequate. You should have borrowed a back mounted 13 , before you went this route. I have 3 13 cu-ft ponies maybe 4? and also one 6-cu-ft bottle

Also, putting an in-line valve in the system is stupid.

 

[Sonic04GT]

My diving/time off is so unpredictable now that it's difficult to truly find a good dive buddy or someone I can meet up with to borrow equipment from. My buddy and I used to dive quite regularly together and developed good practices. However, he now lives halfway across the US from me. That being said, the majority of my diving is with random people, or those I only dive with rarely. There's been a handful of times where a group of divers on a charter has been separated and I'm left thinking what would happen if I had a situation arise right now swimming against the commonly strong currents in the Atlantic? On top of that, I'm not in the greatest shape, which is of course something I need to fix.

All of that being said, I figured having extra air would be more reassuring than having too little in an emergency situation. Maybe a 30cf is a bit much. I may just swap it for a 19cf, or stick with my instincts.

I fly helicopters for a living and I've always been a strong advocate of "the only time you can have too much fuel is if you're on fire." We can take enough to complete the flight with a small reserve and therefore have better performance/weight characteristics, or we could top the tanks and rest assured that we have a strong buffer to work with should any of the many variables arise (weather/unforecasted headwind, fuel leak, etc.). Of course these are rare situations but to say they haven't killed many pilots is a flat out lie.

By no means am I circumventing anybody's advice/opinion but just rather justifying where my thought process comes from with the pony. Peace of mind goes a long way when you find yourself at 100ft separated from a buddy when you're trying to truly enjoy yourself on a pricey charter dive.

This leaves me still in the 19cf vs. 30cf dilemma but still leaning more towards the 30cf. I just don't have any experience diving with it to truly settle on something.

Changing the topic a little referencing the inline valve, what state do you guys normally carry your pony in? Test before the dive, right at the start of the dive underwater, and then shut the valve off but leave the reg pressurized? What other methods are there?

Could the aforementioned lead to any issues, say the second stage was accidentally bumped/purged and now the reg is no longer pressurized? I'm talking in terms of long term damage/concern for the regulator itself.

While doing my research on here I have heard a few people attest to the fact that a 30cf tank slung is almost identical to a 19cf tank slung once underwater, hence why I went with the larger source of air. Anybody else care to comment on this that has used both? I feel if something is too cumbersome I may be less inclined to bring it. How much of a difference does that 0.7" of extra length and 0.9" of diameter make? There's the extra 4lbs as well I guess. Comparison pictures help as well.

 

[kwinter]

Sometimes less is more.


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

The in-line valve serves no purpose on a slung bottle. It does add a couple of O-rings and is a significant potential failure point. I saw one come apart and explode on a boat not too long ago. If you need to stop the flow of gas from the cyliner you will use the tank valve. it is easily accessible, that is the major benefit of having it slung.

If you leave the bottle on and you are clueless the air can all leak out during freeflow or leak. What is the chance that you will not notice this leak? Small. Is it better/safer/easier to just leave it on so that in an emergency you just stick it in your mouth, press the button then breath?

If you want to make sure it doesn't leak, then turn the valve off. But... if it is off and the pressure leaks out of the regulator (or the purge gets bumped) then water can intrude into the regulator under pressure at depth. there is no excess pressure to keep it out. So if you turn it off, you should periodically turn the valve open and or check the guage.. Is this task loading worth the trouble? Is it worth getting water in the reg if you forget and then needing a service sooner? Also, if you are diving with clowns and they get in trouble, grab the pony bottle reg and get one half of a breath and then nothing, (because it is off) is that a concern of yours?

 

[Sonic04GT]

The in-line valve serves no purpose on a slung bottle. It does add a couple of O-rings and is a significant potential failure point. I saw one come apart and explode on a boat not too long ago. If you need to stop the flow of gas from the cyliner you will use the tank valve. it is easily accessible, that is the major benefit of having it slung.

If you leave the bottle on and you are clueless the air can all leak out during freeflow or leak. What is the chance that you will not notice this leak? Small. Is it better/safer/easier to just leave it on so that in an emergency you just stick it in your mouth, press the button then breath?

If you want to make sure it doesn't leak, then turn the valve off. But... if it is off and the pressure leaks out of the regulator (or the purge gets bumped) then water can intrude into the regulator under pressure at depth. there is no excess pressure to keep it out. So if you turn it off, you should periodically turn the valve open and or check the guage.. Is this task loading worth the trouble? Is it worth getting water in the reg if you forget and then needing a service sooner? Also, if you are diving with clowns and they get in trouble, grab the pony bottle reg and get one half of a breath and then nothing, (because it is off) is that a concern of yours?

So where are the positive recommendations on how to carry the pony? Mostly everything you mentioned are the negatives and what could go wrong, which I appreciate, but not necessarily what I asked.

You did however confirm what I was asking about accidental purging of the reg and causing damage to the regulator itself which I obviously want to strive to avoid. So what you're saying is periodically opening and closing the valve is the only way to successfully carry a pony?

The inline valve sounded like an idea a couple pages ago but I have decided against that so it's not in the picture. I'm looking for other methods.

 

[uncfnp]

My diving/time off is so unpredictable now that it's difficult to truly find a good dive buddy or someone I can meet up with to borrow equipment from. My buddy and I used to dive quite regularly together and developed good practices. However, he now lives halfway across the US from me. That being said, the majority of my diving is with random people, or those I only dive with rarely. There's been a handful of times where a group of divers on a charter has been separated and I'm left thinking what would happen if I had a situation arise right now swimming against the commonly strong currents in the Atlantic? On top of that, I'm not in the greatest shape, which is of course something I need to fix.

All of that being said, I figured having extra air would be more reassuring than having too little in an emergency situation. Maybe a 30cf is a bit much. I may just swap it for a 19cf, or stick with my instincts.

I fly helicopters for a living and I've always been a strong advocate of "the only time you can have too much fuel is if you're on fire." We can take enough to complete the flight with a small reserve and therefore have better performance/weight characteristics, or we could top the tanks and rest assured that we have a strong buffer to work with should any of the many variables arise (weather/unforecasted headwind, fuel leak, etc.). Of course these are rare situations but to say they haven't killed many pilots is a flat out lie.

By no means am I circumventing anybody's advice/opinion but just rather justifying where my thought process comes from with the pony. Peace of mind goes a long way when you find yourself at 100ft separated from a buddy when you're trying to truly enjoy yourself on a pricey charter dive.

This leaves me still in the 19cf vs. 30cf dilemma but still leaning more towards the 30cf. I just don't have any experience diving with it to truly settle on something.

Ok. First off. Take a Solo Diver course. You have the needed dives and it will be a great refresher for you, will get you comfortable slinging a pony and improve your diving experience so you will not care if you lose the dive guide. In fact, you might find that you try and lose the guide and the entourage

Changing the topic a little referencing the inline valve, what state do you guys normally carry your pony in? Test before the dive, right at the start of the dive underwater, and then shut the valve off but leave the reg pressurized? What other methods are there?
Could the aforementioned lead to any issues, say the second stage was accidentally bumped/purged and now the reg is no longer pressurized? I'm talking in terms of long term damage/concern for the regulator itself.

I know of three schools of thought. All three start with a detuned second stage and with pressurizing or priming the set predive.

From there, some leave the valve on the entire dive. This choice has the gas always readily accessible to you without any additional steps but risks gas loss from an uncontrolled free flow. If you dive a small tank, this might be important to you.

The next is as Kharon posted and he can speak better to that choice but I believe he puts an inline shut off valve near the second stage and closes it during the dive. This method avoids the risk of water entering the first stage if the initial pressure is lost in the second stage but requires the diver to remember to open the inline valve if the pony is needed.

The third option is the one I use and wrote about earlier. I pressurize the set predive then close the tank valve. This prevents significant gas loss in a free flow but does open up the risk of water in the first stage. So I reprime my reg after entry and periodically thereafter to ensure the line stays pressurized and I know in my " muscle memory" to open that tank valve if I even think I might need to use it.

While doing my research on here I have heard a few people attest to the fact that a 30cf tank slung is almost identical to a 19cf tank slung once underwater, hence why I went with the larger source of air. Anybody else care to comment on this that has used both? I feel if something is too cumbersome I may be less inclined to bring it. How much of a difference does that 0.7" of extra length and 0.9" of diameter make? There's the extra 4lbs as well I guess. Comparison pictures help as well.

I have slung a 13 (my pony), a 19, a 30 and a 40. In my experience, once under the waves and properly slung, there is no significant difference. Remember, it is the buoyancy characteristics of the tanks that count underwater. Not its top side weights. And the small differences in length and diameter are immaterial while diving.

Predive and on a crowded boat, you may notice some difference however. I am a petite female so those differences are pretty significant. For you, maybe not so much. Only you can decide that.

As far as my opinion 19 or 30, there is not wrong answer. It's what you want and feel comfortable with that counts. If you know you will willing lug that slight extra weight and size of the 30 around as religiously as you would a 19 and it makes you feel better. Go for it. In reality, do you need that extra cf of gas for your dives in WPB. IMHO, no.

 

[randy88k5]

My advice would be to stick with the 30cf. As uncfnp said, there is not much difference under the water between a 30cf and a 19cf. You can always re-purpose it down the road.

I have a 30cf slung pony bottle that I carry on most dives for redundancy, unless I am bringing a dedicated deco tank(s). I keep it filled with air. Charged and valve closed during the dive.