Couple questions on a pony bottle for bail out

[Sonic04GT]

Ok. First off. Take a Solo Diver course. You have the needed dives and it will be a great refresher for you, will get you comfortable slinging a pony and improve your diving experience so you will not care if you lose the dive guide. In fact, you might find that you try and lose the guide and the entourage



I know of three schools of thought. All three start with a detuned second stage and with pressurizing or priming the set predive.

From there, some leave the valve on the entire dive. This choice has the gas always readily accessible to you without any additional steps but risks gas loss from an uncontrolled free flow. If you dive a small tank, this might be important to you.

The next is as Kharon posted and he can speak better to that choice but I believe he puts an inline shut off valve near the second stage and closes it during the dive. This method avoids the risk of water entering the first stage if the initial pressure is lost in the second stage but requires the diver to remember to open the inline valve if the pony is needed.

The third option is the one I use and wrote about earlier. I pressurize the set predive then close the tank valve. This prevents significant gas loss in a free flow but does open up the risk of water in the first stage. So I reprime my reg after entry and periodically thereafter to ensure the line stays pressurized and I know in my " muscle memory" to open that tank valve if I even think I might need to use it.



I have slung a 13 (my pony), a 19, a 30 and a 40. In my experience, once under the waves and properly slung, there is no significant difference. Remember, it is the buoyancy characteristics of the tanks that count underwater. Not its top side weights. And the small differences in length and diameter are immaterial while diving.

Predive and on a crowded boat, you may notice some difference however. I am a petite female so those differences are pretty significant. For you, maybe not so much. Only you can decide that.

As far as my opinion 19 or 30, there is not wrong answer. It's what you want and feel comfortable with that counts. If you know you will willing lug that slight extra weight and size of the 30 around as religiously as you would a 19 and it makes you feel better. Go for it. In reality, do you need that extra cf of gas for your dives in WPB. IMHO, no.

I have considered taking a solo diver course. Once I get all this equipment stuff sorted out I'll start looking around and see who offers what in the local area.

Thank you for the suggestions on valve/reg operation. I will take them all into consideration and eventually decide on what I prefer. Do regs with the adjustable knob on the side work well usually for "de-tuning." I don't recall having any issues with my Atomic and it's the only reg I've owned.

I'm beginning to think the 19 will just be more comfortable overall, especially after looking my dive log over again. I want to say 90% of my dives are 100ft or below and you seem well versed with the WPB area.

My other concern was as you mentioned, bringing the equipment out on a crowded boat, or even on our own boat when we may be out doing some fishing as well.

As always, thanks again for your mostly objective input. It's always appreciated.

---------- Post added June 18th, 2014 at 05:40 PM ----------

Any criticism on the Aqualung Calypso for the pony? I know it's been a proven reg for many many years. Our military rigs had them as well although they never got used.
Aqualung Calypso Regulator at LeisurePro

I preferred a DIN setup but could possibly convert this.

Then there's this little guy for starters...
Highland by XS Scuba Compact DIN First Stage at LeisurePro

 

[uncfnp]

Any criticism on the Aqualung Calypso for the pony? I know it's been a proven reg for many many years. Our military rigs had them as well although they never got used.
Aqualung Calypso Regulator at LeisurePro

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/classifieds-regulators/481296-aqualung-calypso.html

Just a friendly FYI

 

[maniago]

Then there's this little guy for starters...
Highland by XS Scuba Compact DIN First Stage at LeisurePro

I just got my solo cert this past weekend. You don't need it to really get at the importance of a pony, but it will reenforce the entire thought process, which I'd liken to a "survivalist" mentality.

As for the Highland, I use it paired with an Aqualung ABS octo - yea the lowly ABS. You can talk yourself into a reg as good as the your primary reg, but in reality, any reg these days is outstanding vs those from the '80s. That and the fact that your coming up if your on the pony, I'd use whatever reg you still have after upgrading your main gear. Thats what the ABS was for me. Again, same for my wife. And it works for us.

Also after diving the 30 for awhile, I'll say that its not the same as the 19, wrt to actual diving. What I'm trying to say is the 19 I never knew it was there vs diving without it. The 30, not so. Its a hefty mofo in and out and it does change my buoyancy characteristics and where I put my weights. I'm not in love with it like I was the 19. But I am "getting used to it".

 

[Ghetto Diver]

DIN aside, if you are looking at piston first stages, go old school and save $$.
I use an Aqualung Aquarius ('79 I believe) on a 13.
Robust, EASY to service and tune, metal not plastic, and I ebayed it for $19.99 to my door.

Sent from my iPhone from my momma's basement

 

[lowviz]

... Also after diving the 30 for awhile, I'll say that its not the same as the 19, wrt to actual diving. What I'm trying to say is the 19 I never knew it was there vs diving without it. The 30, not so. Its a hefty mofo in and out and it does change my buoyancy characteristics and where I put my weights. I'm not in love with it like I was the 19. But I am "getting used to it".

OK, trying to stay out of this, but suffering a momentary lapse of self-control. Offering *my opinion*

Smaller frames / lower SAC's tend to do really well with 13's as rescue bottles/ponies and 30's as deco/stage bottles.

Average frames / average SAC's tend to do really well with 19's and 40's.

Large frames / Huge SAC's tend to improve before 'tech' and end up also doing well on 19's and 40's.

The real problems begin when you start to mix and match divers to form buddy pairs...

 

[DaleC]

Someone mentioned moving to doubles a while ago but I don't think that is a very sensible decision for recreational diving. And yes I often dive doubles when I want to do one long dive or can get fills on the boat.

With a single tank/pony combo you can do multiple dives by simply changing out the back gas. The same pony serves all dives as a reserve. With doubles you get one good dive and then have to decide whether to do a second with very little gas for redundancy or bring a second set of doubles.

Personally I dive with my pony turned on. Some people treat it like a deco bottle, which is charged and turned off, but it does not serve the same function.

A pony bottle is an emergency reserve source of gas, like an octo. No one expects a dead reg rec diving and it will probably be used in a stressed event. My philosophy is that any reg used during a recreational dive should be live ie. able to deliver air. I dive every week, often with a slung pony, and I have never lost an appreciable amount of air from a pony without knowing it.

A deco bottle is used much more deliberately. You arrive at the stop, prepare for the switch, trace the reg back to its source and then use it. A non stressed event that allows for leisurely on/off procedures.

I have a 40cuft and 19cuft pony and have used a 30cuft in the past. I would say the 40 and 30 are very similar and easy to use but a bit clunky if the entry/exit is challenging. The 19 is far lighter and less "bulky" yet still delivers a lot of gas. 19cuft of gas lasts a long time if you have a problem and move shallow quickly for your safety stop. I like the 40 if my dives are more complicated and/or exit is not as straightforward.

 

[rongoodman]

I've had a sidemounted Al40 as a bailout bottle on every dive I've done since I got my rebreather. It's completely unnoticeable.

 

[maniago]

You bought a 30 cu-ft tank for diving in 50-90 ft? Way too big and heavy and cumbersome for your intended use..(in my opinion)

So help me out with this Dump - does a 30 become less heavy big and cumbersome below 90'? I just dove with a guy doing doubles to 90' off Hatteras. On Monday I did 2 50 min dives at <15' standing on my head catching crayfish the entire time. With my 120 and 30 pony. Guy next to me was doing the same thing in a drysuit and twin 65s slung.

There is a lot to be said for a rigging the same each and every time. Maybe when I get 5000 dives I might think differently, but in general, I dont like change or surprises. Most especially surprises....

 

[dumpsterDiver]

So help me out with this Dump - does a 30 become less heavy big and cumbersome below 90'? I just dove with a guy doing doubles to 90' off Hatteras. On Monday I did 2 50 min dives at <15' standing on my head catching crayfish the entire time. With my 120 and 30 pony. Guy next to me was doing the same thing in a drysuit and twin 65s slung.

There is a lot to be said for a rigging the same each and every time. Maybe when I get 5000 dives I might think differently, but in general, I dont like change or surprises. Most especially surprises....

You want to match the inconvenience of the pony with the benefit. A pony is an inconvenience. I won't take one for dives less than about 60 feet. Deeper than that, I want redundancy and will deal with some inconvenience, yet I want to minimize it. If you THINK you need a 30 cu-ft pony bottle to dive 15 ft deep, then I doubt there is much I can teach you. Are you a PADI divemaster?

 

[maniago]

You want to match the inconvenience of the pony with the benefit. A pony is an inconvenience. I won't take one for dives less than about 60 feet. Deeper than that, I want redundancy and will deal with some inconvenience, yet I want to minimize it. If you THINK you need a 30 cu-ft pony bottle to dive 15 ft deep, then I doubt there is much I can teach you. Are you a PADI divemaster?

Youre right; there is nothing you can teach me. I prefer instructors who have a real job. They are far more well rounded than you.