Crime in Bonaire?

[Northeastwrecks]

ggunn once bubbled...
INot everyone in the world agrees that it is one's God given right to leave an expensive camera in a car parked on a lonely stretch of road unattended for a couple of hours and expect it to still be there when they return. Some people just think you are being careless or stupid if you do that. Some law enforcement agencies don't think that it is their job to watch your stuff for you when you go off and leave it where anybody could just walk up and take it.

You may be right. However, listen carefully. I'm not talking about a camera. I'm talking about shoes, clothes and gasoline. I expect them to be there when I return.

You're absolutely right about one thing. I've seen the third world. I didn't like it when the Army paid me to be there and I'm surely not going back for the fun of it.

When Bonaire can clean itself up to the point where pillaging isn't a problem, I'll be happy to look at it. In the meantime, I'll spend a few grand a year on civilized islands. I'll deal with crime up here the old fashioned way. Two to the chest and one through the bridge of the nose.

Perhaps if they tried it down there, the looting would stop.

 

[ggunn]

I was "listening" carefully, and we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Perhaps I obfuscated my main point by including a lesser one.

Conditions in another country are what they are, whatever they are, and we as US citizens have no right to demand that the residents of another country change things to suit us when we visit; doing so only serves to further reinforce the stereotypical image of the Ugly American abroad. You can "expect" anything you want; that doesn't make it so. Proposing a lethal response ("two to the chest and one through the bridge of the nose") to petty theft (yeah, I know it's not petty to you) only supports my point.

Here in the US, courts have in several cases justified using deadly force as a response to finding someone breaking into your car. Try that in just about any country abroad ("third world" or no), especially against a local resident, and you will find yourself behind bars in a very unpleasant jail for a long, long time.

PS: I apologize to the scubaboard community at large if there is any perceived acrimony in my responses; I hold no animosity toward Northeastwrecks. It's just that the tarnished image of the US traveler abroad (and the ways that some of us further it) is a bit of a hot button for me. I lived abroad for a time, and I found myself being repeatedly embarrassed by my countrymen.

There was, for example, the stereotypical Texan (boots, hat, giant belt buckle) in a sidewalk cafe in Lima, Peru, whom I observed holding a diminutive waiter by the lapel and bellowing in his face, "VAN-nilla! VAN-nilla! What's the matter, boy, don't you speak English?" I was sharing a nearby table with an Aussie friend of mine, and the sardonic expression on his face spoke volumes.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

ggunn once bubbled...
Conditions in another country are what they are, whatever they are, and we as US citizens have no right to demand that the residents of another country change things to suit us when we visit; doing so only serves to further reinforce the stereotypical image of the Ugly American abroad. You can "expect" anything you want; that doesn't make it so. Proposing a lethal response ("two to the chest and one through the bridge of the nose") to petty theft (yeah, I know it's not petty to you) only supports my point.

I expect nothing of the sort, whether from the third world or otherwise. I'm not saying that Bonaire, or any other country, should change in order to suit Americans.

Instead, I'm suggesting that (1) Bonaire desires income from tourists; (2) I am prepared to spend a fair chunk of change travelling to countries where I can dive; (3) I will not visit Bonaire so long as pillagers run wild in the streets; (4) I will tell my friends, students and other divers to avoid the island until I hear that the pillaging has abated; and (5) I will continue to recommend other destinations, particularly including Bermuda and Grand Cayman, because I have found them to be enjoyable places to visit that do not have the street crime found in Bonaire.

You are absolutely right that it is Bonaire's right to continue to run things in the manner that they suggest. In particular, they can continue to allow the street crime to flourish. However, its my right to avoid the place so long as they do.

Incidentally, deadly force would not be my first choice for a car break. I'd prefer to take appropriate action to detain the criminal pending arrival of law enforcement, then have a little chat with the DA's office regarding the manner in which they would handle the prosecution and the sad unavailability of a plea bargain for the criminal.

Finally, I agree with you regarding the ridiculous actions of some Americans when they travel overseas. I don't expect anyone to change their lifestyle, or their language, to suit me. I enjoy experiencing local culture. However, so long as I have the right to choose my destinations, I will choose to avoid destinations where part of the local culture involves larceny against tourists.

 

[tvictory]

Why not spend the few extra bucks and get a boat-dive package in Bonaire. It's really not very expensive and you need the boat to see Klein Bonaire anyway. The only crime you hear about in Bonaire involves pilfering of items left in vehicles by shore divers. Most of the resorts offer unlimited shore diving and have an excellent reef right outside the back door which is open 24/7 and you don't need to drive to it.

 

[Epinephelus]

On our last trip to Bonaire, one of my buddies had his entire boat bag - fins, booties, wetsuit, BC, regulator, mask etc - fall off the back of our pickup somewhere between the fish farm and Windsock (opposite sides of the island). We backtracked carefully along the entire route but were unable to find the bag, and so finally went to the police station... where we retrieved the bag with everything still in it.
E.

 

[Pettifogger]

A current, developing andn rather humorous thread concerning Crime on Bonaire...


http://www.bonairetalk.com/newsgroup/messages/1022/120025.html?1066079799

If the link doesn't work, go to bonairetalk.com, trip reports, "trouble in paradise."

I find the talk of using paintball guns and Navy SEAL assault tactics rather funny...

 

[ggunn]

Pettifogger once bubbled...
A current, developing andn rather humorous thread concerning Crime on Bonaire...


http://www.bonairetalk.com/newsgroup/messages/1022/120025.html?1066079799

If the link doesn't work, go to bonairetalk.com, trip reports, "trouble in paradise."

I find the talk of using paintball guns and Navy SEAL assault tactics rather funny...

The part about losing their "rubber thongs" got my attention... ;^)

 

[Clutchcargo]

I just returned from Bonaire.
The car rental agencies told us to lock the car. I questioned them on this and they said there weren't many problems with breakins. I wondered, "Then why are you checking to make sure the jack and spare tire are still there?"
We took all the precautions left windows open and such. After an entire week of diving, we started to feel safe that no one was going to steal anything from the truck. We began to think it would be OK to take our video cameras with us and hide them under the seat. But threads like this one made me think that it would be best to carry nothing with us.
Finally on our last day of diving, our truck had been gone through. The stuff in the glovebox was on the floor. Nothing was taken, as there was nothing of real value in the truck (towels, sandles, cheap sunglasses). The point of the story is even if begin feeling safe, think again. The truck next to us had its window smashed.
Strangely, I felt a satisfaction that the car was gone through, as if victory was mine.

 

[NightRaven77]

Wow!

I was just an inquiring about Bonaire and Crime...and look how far this topic went............guess there is something to worrie about when your down there.......

I am just now very aprehensive about going down....Ive worked hard for my gear as well as anything else and would be severly upset if something of value was really taken.....Vacations are for relaxation and I dont need to be looking over my shoulder or popping my head out of the water to see if someone is screwing around with the car/truck......Just seems like you would always be on the defensive when you should be having fun.....

I would hate to catch a perpetrator in the act......I wouldnt want to cause an international incident.........

:boom:

 

[jammy]

Wow, a lot of info/rants here.
Just a few questions before my rant. Are boat dives worth it to avoid the crime? Will my prescription glasses be taken and do I need to take them down with me? Child car seat - need to remove it at our villa or have grandma watch our child and our car on shore dives? I suspect that car seats are valuable anywhere.

How can anybody feel that theft is acceptable? Understandable ok, but not acceptable. That type of behavior is forbidden in every society (at least at some level - yeah it's ok to steal from rich tourists, but not the locals etc.). I have travelled throughout the world and am very careful with valuables whether in NYC or the developing world. Sanctioned theft is disgusting no matter where it occurs, nor by whom (ie government vs individuals). If I get robbed somewhere it will definately affect my opinion and my recommendations to others. Of course you can decide not to subject yourself to that, or just take reasonable precautions. I prefer to dive Bonaire (my frst visit) and take the risk. Any other suggestions on how to make our trip safer would be appreciated. Thanks