Deco Dives With Liberal Computers

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me and my Buddie are doing daily deco dives ( 40 to 50 m depth) , we are having about 30 to 40 minute deco stops.

Three quick questions:
How long was your bottom time at 40-50M to accumulate 30-40m of decompression?
How much gas did you bring on the dives (i.e. tank sizes and quantity)?
What gasses were those tanks filled with?

I'm not clear on the entire equation, but I am clear that you should absolutely cease this activity until you complete the training that provides skills and knowledge equivalent to the depths, gasses, and decompression durations you're trying to accomplish.
 
There's a lot of good advice here. Get training.

As far as I know I waited about 40 years before I did my first deco dive. Currently I use two different computers, one set to a conservative setting and another more liberal. I follow the conservative computer then look at what my liberal computer says after I download it. During the last three weeks almost all my dives have been deco according to the conservative computer and none were deco based on the liberal one. Although I'm a liberal politically, I'd much rather be conservative with respect to my diving.
 
Three quick questions:
How long was your bottom time at 40-50M to accumulate 30-40m of decompression?
How much gas did you bring on the dives (i.e. tank sizes and quantity)?
What gasses were those tanks filled with?

I'm not clear on the entire equation, but I am clear that you should absolutely cease this activity until you complete the training that provides skills and knowledge equivalent to the depths, gasses, and decompression durations you're trying to accomplish.

we are spending about 30 min in between 40 - 50 m

i am usign 15 L tank compressed at 200 bar and im always ending up after the dive with minimum 60 bar left, and we always bring with us an extra tank on the boat

tanks are filled with air.


guy thanks for your concerns, but what we are doing is extra safe . i know my limitation, like for example when u go deeper than 60 m the air become toxic, and i also i know and i am respecting every precaution to avoid DCS.

in case my computer dies on ascending and I'm far from my Buddie (which never happened) , i know exactly how much deco i have to do and at what level.
 
guy thanks for your concerns, but what we are doing is extra safe . i know my limitation,

No, it isn't and no, you don't.

You're rolling the dice on every dive, without mitigation of any risks, and think that you're "up to the task" purely because nothing has happened to go wrong yet.

That''s the sign of terrible, terrible divers IMHO.

.
 
Can you please tell me why ? iv been doing this for 2 years and my buddie for the past 11 years on a daily basis, and he is not even technical dive , and we never had any kind of problems. as far as i know , every dive is a deco dive, so where is the problem if im having x deco stop time and im finishing them at y ceiling level.

i admit that the only mistake that im doing is that im diving sometimes deeper than 40 M .
 
'Getting away with risk' is not the same as 'mitigating risk'.

Just because you didn't get hurt yesterday, has no bearing on whether you will get hurt tomorrow. What happens is that you take unnecessary risks... you get lucky...nothing goes wrong.... and that reinforces a mis-conception that what you are doing is ok. That's a false premise.

The difference is that appropriate training, procedures and equipment ensure that those unnecessary risks are all accounted for. What you are doing is ok... because you are prepared to mitigate against the worst case scenario... rather than simply relying upon luck to provide you with the best case scenario

As you say... "you never have any kind of problems". Have you convinced yourself that this means 'no problems will ever occur'?

Do a technical course and you will understand very quickly​, the advice given to you on this thread. That's a promise.


'
 
Can you please tell me why ? iv been doing this for 2 years and my buddie for the past 11 years on a daily basis, and he is not even technical dive , and we never had any kind of problems. as far as i know , every dive is a deco dive, so where is the problem if im having x deco stop time and im finishing them at y ceiling level.

i admit that the only mistake that im doing is that im diving sometimes deeper than 40 M .

Hey, if you're fine doing deco diving without having an instructor sign off on you as understanding decompression theory/procedures (and I'm in no position to cast stones on that point, though I don't come to SB asking for advice on how to dive beyond my certifications -- not to be confused with my training and experience -- and expect a constructive response, either), what's with you calling going below 40M a "mistake"?

IMO, you're not even doing a very good job of planning these out based on a standard of what info you could glean from SB, Google, and Wikipedia. And gearwise, at least do the two hour PADI EAN course so you can sling an 80 of nitrox 40% to deco on. Hell, sling an extra tank of air if that's the best you can do. But single 15L deco dives to 40m for 30min? You must have the world's lowest air consumption rate :wink:

For air at 40m for 30 minutes (assuming a flat profile here, not multi-level, and that you never dip below 40m, which we know you do...), V-Planner at +2 conservatism (and I'd bump to +3 if I were on air for dive+deco) tells me that for deco on air you'll need to do stops at 70ft-1min; 60ft-3min, 50ft-3min, 40ft-6min, 30ft-8min, and 20ft-49min. Total dive time of 1hr, 42min, total deco of 70min, and burning around 155cf of air. My Petrel would say the same as V-Planner, so let's go to the Cobalt for an easy to generate RGBM profile: same dive on air of 30 minutes at 40m, deco on air would only be 38min at the most risky settings, but at .64cfm you're burning 136cf of gas doing so.

The RGBM profile I just ran isn't so hugely different from what you say you're doing--though pushing a computer to its most risky settings for deco diving on air in order to get in the ballpark of the profile you're using says nothing good about your practice. So, while I might not dive that profile, it's perhaps not entirely insane.

But running just a15L tank for these profiles seems really stupid. Do you carry redundant air? If not, what happens when your reg free flows at 40m, 29 minutes into the dive, and you lose half the gas you had left? Your deco profile is already at the very edge of what's conceivably "safe" and now you don't even have enough gas to complete it. Ditto re: something going wrong and your breathing rate spiking. I won't even discuss what happens if your buddy has a major gas loss and the two of you are left to deco on your air only...maybe it's every man for himself at that point.

You also said you know what stops you need to do in case your computer dies and you can't follow your buddy's computer, that you know how long to stop at what depth. That's a good thing, but do you run a deco plan and take it with you for contingencies like having to stay down an extra 5, 10, or 20 minutes (you probably lack the gas to make those survivable contingencies, but I digress)? Do you have a back up timer and depth gauge, or at least an SMB and marked ascent line you could use? Otherwise, you're guestimating time and depth for the profile you memorized/wrote down.

I won't fault you for just for doing decompression diving without having an expensive c-card saying that someone thinks you're ready to do it--though that is most assuredly the best and safest way to go--but I will fault you for not thinking it out very well at all.
 
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You also said you know what stops you need to do in case your computer dies and you can't follow your buddy's computer, that you know how long to stop at what depth. That's a good thing, but do you run a deco plan and take it with you for contingencies like having to stay down an extra 5, 10, or 20 minutes (you probably lack the gas to make those survivable contingencies, but I digress)? Do you have a back up timer and depth gauge, or at least an SMB and marked ascent line you could use? Otherwise, you're guestimating time and depth for the profile you memorized/wrote down.

yes of course i have extra gauge and a timer , and as i said we have an extra 15 l tank equipped with a regulator ready on the boat in case of free flow , we are descending according to a marked line attached to the boat and we are always returning to it , we also have an emergency parachute marker aside from the regular one in case of emergency. i don't think my computer profile is risky as long as i am respecting the precautions ( sleeping hours, alcohol ....)
 
...and yet, so many other divers are expressing concern over the risks described in your dives. In most cases, those divers are far more experienced than you. Doesn't that 'set your alarm bells ringing'?

Did you start the thread for advice, or just to show off? If you goal is to receive good advice, then you don't need to be defensive in reply to it.. :wink:
 
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