Did I do something wrong?

[DaleC]

Remember your buddy is carrying your back up gas supply, if you need to baby sit him past a ray, then what happens when you have a free flow at 60ft?

My buddy doesn't carry my back up gas supply (when I have either). My gas supply is my responsibility and I don't shluff that off onto someone I may not have even spoken to until just moments before a dive. Freeflow at 60'? - swim up.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

Remember your buddy is carrying your back up gas supply, if you need to baby sit him past a ray, then what happens when you have a free flow at 60ft? Agree with Dumpsterdiver, this is a dive that shouldn't have happened.

My buddy doesn't carry my back up gas supply (when I have either). My gas supply is my responsibility and I don't shluff that off onto someone I may not have even spoken to until just moments before a dive. Freeflow at 60'? - swim up.

You should never think of your buddy as your back-up air supply, you are responsible for watching your own air!! Also, didn't you learn how to breath off a free flowing reg in OW?

I was told this once too, because I got back to the boat with 350psi in my tank. My question should have been, if we're making safety stops alone, what buddy are you talking about??

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

You should never think of your buddy as your back-up air supply, you are responsible for watching your own air!! Also, didn't you learn how to breath off a free flowing reg in OW?

I can think of several situations where you MUST think of your buddy as your back-up air supply ... but at 25-49 dives you will not have been exposed to those situations yet (hopefully). Be careful with that word never ... it rarely applies in scuba diving.

And there's a big difference between breathing off a free-flowing reg while kneeling on the bottom of a pool vs doing it while making an ascent in OW. Try the latter sometime and let us know how it went ... it can be done, but it's not as easy as you might think, particularly for a new diver.

I was told this once too, because I got back to the boat with 350psi in my tank. My question should have been, if we're making safety stops alone, what buddy are you talking about??

So why were you making your safety stop alone? Did you plan to dive solo? Or did it just turn out that way?

Getting back on the boat with 350 psi is no big whoop ... once you're back on the boat, why should anyone care how much air is left in your tank? The relevent question is how you arrived at that number ... and whether it was an intentional decision or a matter of circumstance.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[exposure]

To complete for TsandM the dive was done with a 5mm wetsuit in the red sea (south egypt). 4kg (9Lbs) for me and probably 8kg (18lbs) for him.

And sorry for Dale but here it is not a question of what is the role of the buddy in case you run out of air... This dive was done according to PADI Recreational standard, so your buddy is your back-up in case you run out of air. If you don't agree with that you should open a specific topic.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

I can think of several situations where you MUST think of your buddy as your back-up air supply ... but at 25-49 dives you will not have been exposed to those situations yet (hopefully). Be careful with that word never ... it rarely applies in scuba diving.

And there's a big difference between breathing off a free-flowing reg while kneeling on the bottom of a pool vs doing it while making an ascent in OW. Try the latter sometime and let us know how it went ... it can be done, but it's not as easy as you might think, particularly for a new diver.


So why were you making your safety stop alone? Did you plan to dive solo? Or did it just turn out that way?

Getting back on the boat with 350 psi is no big whoop ... once you're back on the boat, why should anyone care how much air is left in your tank? The relevent question is how you arrived at that number ... and whether it was an intentional decision or a matter of circumstance.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I know things can happen, when I say never I mean I'm not going jump in the water depending on my buddy's air because he's better on air than I am, if our dive plan says turn around at 1500 psi we turn around at 1500 psi. Yes they're there in case I need them. as for the free flowing reg, my alternate air source isn't just for my buddy! I can use it also.If I use it and crimp my airline with the free flowing reg, there is no reason that I should run out of air during my accent. Since I work in a field where staying cool calm and collected is a part of the job, I'm less likely to panic when things go wrong. I never said it was easy to breath off a free flowing reg, I said didn't you learn how to do that in OW. IE: remember your training, practice your training so when you have to use it, it's almost like second nature. That's why people who do what others think are difficult "heroic" jobs can do them with such ease, because they practice, practice, practice. Yes I only have 25-49 dives, but I spend a lot of time in between dives in a pool practicing for things that I think could go wrong.

When diving shallow guided dives because when I travel I am diving alone. It's common practice for divers to do a safety stop alone instead of ending the dive when the first person runs low on air. Arriving back with 350 was not intentional but because of being an air hog.

---------- Post Merged at 11:17 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:54 AM ----------

To complete for TsandM the dive was done with a 5mm wetsuit in the red sea (south egypt). 4kg (9Lbs) for me and probably 8kg (18lbs) for him.

And sorry for Dale but here it is not a question of what is the role of the buddy in case you run out of air... This dive was done according to PADI Recreational standard, so your buddy is your back-up in case you run out of air. If you don't agree with that you should open a specific topic.

I have seen divers do buddy sharing when it may not have been necessary if panic didn't set in, on a dive in Jamaica a guy said his pressure gauge showed 2900 psi but he couldn't get any air out of his regulator when we reached depth, DM took him back to the boat using his alternate air source, which made me think about what would I do if something happened to my primary, why couldn't I at least try my alternate and ascend since I'm not out of air, if that didn't work then I would use my buddy's air. OOA situations aren't the only reasons some people think you should share air.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I know things can happen, when I say never I mean I'm not going jump in the water depending on my buddy's air because he's better on air than I am, if our dive plan says turn around at 1500 psi we turn around at 1500 psi. Yes they're there in case I need them. as for the free flowing reg, my alternate air source isn't just for my buddy! I can use it also.If I use it and crimp my airline with the free flowing reg, there is no reason that I should run out of air during my accent. Since I work in a field where staying cool calm and collected is a part of the job, I'm less likely to panic when things go wrong. I never said it was easy to breath off a free flowing reg, I said didn't you learn how to do that in OW. IE: remember your training, practice your training so when you have to use it, it's almost like second nature. That's why people who do what others think are difficult "heroic" jobs can do them with such ease, because they practice, practice, practice. Yes I only have 25-49 dives, but I spend a lot of time in between dives in a pool practicing for things that I think could go wrong.

When diving shallow guided dives because when I travel I am diving alone. It's common practice for divers to do a safety stop alone instead of ending the dive when the first person runs low on air. Arriving back with 350 was not intentional but because of being an air hog.

There's a big difference between "knowing" something and applying it on a real dive where stress, narcosis, or other task-loading factors may affect your ability to cope. Panic isn't something you breed out of yourself because of what you do for a living ... it's a response to being faced with a problem you don't have the wherewithall to resolve. Divers at your level of experience tend to "know" a lot and "understand" only a fraction of what they know. In another couple hundred dives, how you think about your dive will have changed, because you will have had a chance to put some of that theoretical knowledge into practice, and it will start to become clear to you that it's not as straightforward as you appear to believe it to be. If you're like most of us, you'll also realize that you're taking risks now that you'd never consider taking once you've gained enough experience to truly evaluate them.

I have seen divers do buddy sharing when it may not have been necessary if panic didn't set in, on a dive in Jamaica a guy said his pressure gauge showed 2900 psi but he couldn't get any air out of his regulator when we reached depth, DM took him back to the boat using his alternate air source, which made me think about what would I do if something happened to my primary, why couldn't I at least try my alternate and ascend since I'm not out of air, if that didn't work then I would use my buddy's air. OOA situations aren't the only reasons some people think you should share air.

Breathing your alternate second in this case won't solve the problem. The DM should've just reached over and finished turning the guy's air on ... what you just described most commonly occurs when someone turns their tank valve the wrong way ... closing it ... and then backs it the other way a quarter-turn. It allows enough air through on the surface to breathe normally, but at depth creates a constriction that doesn't allow adequate air for normal breathing. The first thing you do in this case is look at the pressure gauge. If it's moving while he inhales, then turn the tank valve on ... and the problem will go away ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DaleC]

To complete for TsandM the dive was done with a 5mm wetsuit in the red sea (south egypt). 4kg (9Lbs) for me and probably 8kg (18lbs) for him.

And sorry for Dale but here it is not a question of what is the role of the buddy in case you run out of air... This dive was done according to PADI Recreational standard, so your buddy is your back-up in case you run out of air. If you don't agree with that you should open a specific topic.

I was responding to a comment made by another poster regarding a statement that I felt was not accurate. I have a thing about allowing small mistruths or misperceptions to slip by unchallenged.

Sorry if that offends, threads tend to drift when the primary topic has been covered. I kinda felt your question had been answered multiple times already and all the small details doesn't change the fact. How many times do you need to be told you were right... and what if someone on the internet told you you were wrong? As a DM you will be the person in a leadership role and need to have the ability to tell whether you yourself are doing the right thing. This will not be based on peoples opinions but on your understanding of safe diving principles.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

There's a big difference between "knowing" something and applying it on a real dive where stress, narcosis, or other task-loading factors may affect your ability to cope. Panic isn't something you breed out of yourself because of what you do for a living ... it's a response to being faced with a problem you don't have the wherewithall to resolve. Divers at your level of experience tend to "know" a lot and "understand" only a fraction of what they know. In another couple hundred dives, how you think about your dive will have changed, because you will have had a chance to put some of that theoretical knowledge into practice, and it will start to become clear to you that it's not as straightforward as you appear to believe it to be. If you're like most of us, you'll also realize that you're taking risks now that you'd never consider taking once you've gained enough experience to truly evaluate them.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I've been doing what I do on my job for 20 years and I'm still taking training because you can never no everything about anything!! The same goes for diving that's why I'm constantly practicing because I don't no everything about diving and have a lot to learn. After 100 dives I will know more, after 1000 dives (if I ever make there) I will know more, but I'll still be learning because things will always change.

Stress it a part of life, you learn how to cope with it, also if you're suffering from narcosis, are you going to have the ability to access a situation and make a logical call?

I never said panic was something you breed out, but once you've realized that cooler heads will always prevail panic is not a thing that every one does. Troubleshooting difficult problems is breed in me, so I know nothing is as straight forward as it may seem.

Task loading, there are only so many things that I can do at one time, and I realize that.

Risks, take them everyday just driving to work. I realize when I'm diving that I'm responsible for my own safety and my buddy's safety. I'm not going to take any unnecessary risks that would be either of us in jeopardy, nor am I going to follow him into any that would put me in jeopardy. Like everything else in life most of the risks are taking by the newbies, but by the more experienced person because of the "I've done this a 1000 times before, I know what I'm doing" mentality. And wouldn't think diving is any different.


And as far as the alternate regulator, we don't know whether it would have worked or not because he never tried it, my point was not what was wrong, but not thinking a situation through, in the time it took him to realize that his reg wasn't working and get to the dive master he could have tried it. "We don't know whether his air was off or not, or he had a faulty regulator, I've learned never to assume because it's usually one thing that it's always the same thing.

 

[exposure]

I was responding to a comment made by another poster regarding a statement that I felt was not accurate. I have a thing about allowing small mistruths or misperceptions to slip by unchallenged.

Sorry if that offends, threads tend to drift when the primary topic has been covered. I kinda felt your question had been answered multiple times already and all the small details doesn't change the fact. How many times do you need to be told you were right... and what if someone on the internet told you you were wrong? As a DM you will be the person in a leadership role and need to have the ability to tell whether you yourself are doing the right thing. This will not be based on peoples opinions but on your understanding of safe diving principles.

Sorry if I offend you, that was not my purpose.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

And as far as the alternate regulator, we don't know whether it would have worked or not because he never tried it, my point was not what was wrong, but not thinking a situation through, in the time it took him to realize that his reg wasn't working and get to the dive master he could have tried it. "We don't know whether his air was off or not, or he had a faulty regulator, I've learned never to assume because it's usually one thing that it's always the same thing.

Based on how you described the situation, I do know that switching to his alternate second stage would not have worked ... not unless it was attached to a pony bottle or something. That's not an assumption, it's based on knowing a bit about how a regulator is designed to work. Second stages don't fail closed ... they fail open. If it was a second-stage failure, it would have provided too much air rather than not enough. Either his valve was mostly turned off (by far the most likely problem) or he had a first-stage failure (unlikely, but possible). Either failure would affect how air is delivered to both second stages equally.

Sure, you can try it ... but it's better to have a little bit of knowledge about how your equipment works, so you don't waste time trying things that won't help ... this is especially relevent when you're not breathing. But in fact, going to the DM or his dive buddy for air was the best course of action under the circumstances. It's possible he didn't need to end the dive, however ... the most likely cause of the problem was easily fixable underwater ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)