Difference between cave diving and cavern diving

[TSandM]

They also run the gold line through portions of the cavern with large passage and minimal bottom silt. Silt in MX is, in large part, quite different from Florida silt or clay - it's coarser in texture, harder to kick up, and quicker to settle. This is true pretty much until you get into rarely dived passage, or virgin passage.

 

[kensuf]

Yes -- there is quite an industry taking divers with only open water certifications through the "tourist" caverns. There is permanent gold line in place, and reliable operators follow a set of rules that have proven to result in excellent safety for the tours. Someone with a cavern certification can dive without a guide, though, and can also go to sites which are not generally used by the tours.

How does someone differentiate between a reliable operator and some idiot that may kill them?

 

[tursiops]

If you get killed, please report who the operator was here so we can maintain a black list.

 

[Peter Guy]

While Kensuf's post may well have been written with tongue firmly implanted in cheek, I do know of a couple of ways to answer the question:

a. Go diving with an established dive shop -- including those which are associated with an hotel or resort -- as they probably have more "skin in the game" and are willing to abide by the rules

b. ASK QUESTIONS before you buy -- Is the guide an instructor AND full cave? How long has she been both? What is the maximum number of divers you are willing to take and why? And lastly, how often do you do these tours?

 

[kensuf]

Caveat emptor. Peter mostly nailed it, the guide should be a leadership level person and full cave, and be decked out in full cave kit. But I'd throw a couple of other points in there..

1. I don't think a good guide needs to be an instructor, but should at least be at some leadership level (Divemaster). I have a divemaster candidate I've been working with that when she is done I would completely trust to lead people on cavern dives.

2. Check their background and references. Even if someone is full cave and an OW instructor that does not mean they're qualified to guide people in overhead environments. Even if a person has a fancy web-page with pretty pictures, that does not mean they're qualified to guide people in overhead environments. We had a person running around North Florida about two and a half years ago that was at one point an OW scuba instructor and was full cave that really had no business acting in this role. She continued to exhibit piss poor judgment, but she claimed to be a cave guide (and charged people for it). I think everyone caught on to her antics when she and a "client" exited a cave system with only a few hundred PSI left in their tanks after getting lost.

 

[TSandM]

Years ago, a group of cave instructors formed an association called APSA -- I can't remember what the acronym stands for, but they came up with a set of rules for the cavern tours, and they even developed a class for the guides to take, to make sure they were properly qualified to lead. Unfortunately, it was all voluntary, and the class died, and I think the association has as well. But the rules still exist, and a good dive operator will follow them: The guide must be at least DM and Full Cave, and dive in cave gear. No more than 4 divers to a guide, and all must have lights. A pre-dive briefing must include some information about the geology, about proper diving technique in the caves, and clearly discuss gas limits. The dive must remain on the gold line, and thirds must be respected.

If those rules are followed, the tours are very safe. Where people have gotten into trouble is where the rules have been broken. I always advise people to ask the dive op if they follow the APSA rules. If they don't know what that is, go elsewhere.

 

[tursiops]

Years ago, a group of cave instructors formed an association called APSA -- I can't remember what the acronym stands for, but they came up with a set of rules for the cavern tours, and they even developed a class for the guides to take, to make sure they were properly qualified to lead.

Association of Dive and Water Sports Operators
(link is dead)
Asociacion de Prestadores de Servicios Acuaticos

Good advice.

 

[ScubaInChicago]

Speaking of agencies, I hear UDIE, Underwater Dive Instructors and Explorers has set the bar at a new level. If you have the wallet, they have the card. I recommend doing some research before jumping on Pete's short list.

 

[LandonL]

Speaking of agencies, I hear UDIE, Underwater Dive Instructors and Explorers has set the bar at a new level. If you have the wallet, they have the card. I recommend doing some research before jumping on Pete's short list.

UDIE is a parody... it isn't a real agency. The about info on their Facebook page is "Underwater Dive Instructors and Explorers who won't be hampered by the constraints of Training Standards or universally accepted safe dive practices."

See the page here: https://www.facebook.com/Bogarthian

 

[Jack Hammer]

UDIE is a parody... it isn't a real agency. The about info on their Facebook page is "Underwater Dive Instructors and Explorers who won't be hampered by the constraints of Training Standards or universally accepted safe dive practices."

See the page here: https://www.facebook.com/Bogarthian

This thread shouldn't be about agency bashing.... [emoji2]

Sent via