Difference between cave diving and cavern diving

[Superlyte27]

Also Kate is a friend and good diver.

I consider Kate both of those things.

 

[swimmer_spe]

The only reason I wrote this is that I began to wonder if the OP understands that he doesn't need a cavern cert to see the cenotes.

I wasn't sure of that.

 

[TSandM]

Yes -- there is quite an industry taking divers with only open water certifications through the "tourist" caverns. There is permanent gold line in place, and reliable operators follow a set of rules that have proven to result in excellent safety for the tours. Someone with a cavern certification can dive without a guide, though, and can also go to sites which are not generally used by the tours.

 

[Storker]

As an OW-trained diver, without any overhead training, you can do Cenote tours in Mexico.

[...]

I began to wonder if the OP understands that he doesn't need a cavern cert to see the cenotes.

I've never dived the cenotes, so I don't know how they look. But are you saying that the guides are taking non-overhead-trained divers into an overhead environment? Isn't that the very definition of a 'trust me' dive?

In 2012 an Italian guide took a bunch of OW divers into an overhead environment. That didn't end well.

I may be overly catious, but you'll never see me in an overhead environment without overhead environment training and proper gear. Even if a guide tells me that it's OK. Because I don't trust guides and commercial ops with my life.


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[TSandM]

Yes, they are taking non-overhead trained divers into an overhead, as do guides in the Cathedrals in Lanai, the swim-throughs in Cozumel, and any number of guides through any number of wrecks. The cenote cavern tours are, for the most part, conducted most definitely in the daylight zone, in areas which are not small, not silty, and generally in which it would be difficult to get oneself into a great deal of trouble. That doesn't mean that ALL the caverns in MX are so benign, just that there exists a set of caverns which have been selected and prepared for these tours, which have an excellent safety record IF the rules are followed.

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[KenGordon]

I've never dived the cenotes, so I don't know how they look. But are you saying that the guides are taking non-overhead-trained divers into an overhead environment? Isn't that the very definition of a 'trust me' dive?

In 2012 an Italian guide took a bunch of OW divers into an overhead environment. That didn't end well.

I may be overly catious, but you'll never see me in an overhead environment without overhead environment training and proper gear. Even if a guide tells me that it's OK. Because I don't trust guides and commercial ops with my life.


--
Sent from my Android phone
Typos are a feature, not a bug

Training generally involves some trust. Imagine the process of gaining that training for a cave. At some point you will need to go inside before you are completely competent.

The cenote tours are cavern dives but the difference between cave and cavern was not obvious to me. We followed a line and our guide. At all times we could turn round and follow the line back. If our guide had dropped dead we'd have been ok. If I'd had a regulator failure I had two or three people in my group on singles each with enough gas to get me out and then the guide on a twinset with some more.

I believe it has happened that a guide trying to show off has left the line and a group lost. I think the only skill required to avoid that is being able to recognise leaving the line and saying no.

The cenotes are amazing. I live the other side of the world from them but will eventually get trained to dive them properly.

 

[boulderjohn]

In 2012 an Italian guide took a bunch of OW divers into an overhead environment. That didn't end well.

That guide himself had no training for overhead environments whatsoever. He had no special equipment. He had never been in that cavern before. He took a wrong turn into a very dangerous cave (not cavern) because the sign warning not to go there was missing. The cavern they were supposed to stay in had no potential for silt. The cave they entered was full of silt.

The guides in Mexico are required to be cave trained, and they are required to have appropriate cave diving gear. The caverns they take them to do not have the potential to be silted out.

 

[totalangel]

While there's lots of info on cavern vs cave, agency, the best instructors in the biz, and where you should go for your training... let me throw my 2 cent in.

Finding an instructor for cavern/cave training is much more intensive than finding an instructor for recreational diving. The instructor that I choose had to not only be a great instructor in teaching the materials but had to be someone that I trusted in case things went south. My instructor needed to be someone that could keep everything together and not lose his sh*t if an emergency came up. He needed to be quick-thinking, well-trained, and give me a feeling of security in and out of the water. I dare say it might have been almost as involved as finding a spouse! What it came down to for me was this simple question "Do I trust this person with my life?". You find that person, you found a great instructor. (I would recommend my instructor but unfortunately he's retired.)

Now about that claustrophobia thing - I am also mildly claustrophobic. I detest big crowds and full elevators. I do not like to be cornered or surrounded. And yet I am a cave diver. I will not go into extremely tight restrictions but I will go through narrow tunnels and have conquered many with no incidents. If I'm being honest - I don't love being in the middle of the team during those types of restrictions but I have kept my wits and have worked through any anxiety I had. You just have to be honest with yourself and your team. You'll probably decide fairly early if it's something you can handle. Just know that not all caves have restrictions like that. The cenotes I've been in while cave diving in Mexico are huge and beautiful. You often cannot see across the room. So cave diving as someone with claustrophobia is possible. Just be sure to stay within your personal comfort zone.

Good luck!

 

[tomfcrist]

Just out of curiosity, how do they prepare the caverns to ensure "no possibility of a silt out"?

Do they dredge it?

 

[boulderjohn]

Just out of curiosity, how do they prepare the caverns to ensure "no possibility of a silt out"?

Do they dredge it?

There is no need to dredge. The caves have at most a light, fine layer of silt at the bottom that if stirred to the max will decrease visibility somewhat but not come close to eliminating it.

Lots of caves and caverns are like that. Lots of environments are like that. Last winter I had an insta-buddy dive buddy diving the wreck of the Captain Dan in South Florida. He was a local instructor, and he knew the wreck well, so the plan was for me to follow him through the rooms. The guy wore huge free diving fins, and he flutter-kicked his way through every room, stirring up the silt as much as it could possibly be stirred. As a consequence, he got to see things in crystal clarity and I had to tolerate a dusty view. It was annoying, but not remotely dangerous.